Cougars, Kukuris, Kids

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Mar 22, 2002
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No one chases the cats anymore since Bart Travis left for Great Falls, and that was 3 years ago. A mile from here the lady said there was one on her front patio. Someone saw a tail in the ravine, cruising above the shrubs until taking off and disapearing. Then Sammy and a former forest Ranger saw the biggest tom they'd ever seen right by the mining gate. The ranger had seen cats all his life, his son's brought them home nowadays, the hides, and before that during his years of rangering. He'd seen a 230 pound cat once. He swore this one was 250. An old tom this close to town?

That's about 250 yards from my house, give or take a few trees and boulders. I should have noticed the deer weren't bedding down on the mountain anymore. It was quiet. The turkeys aren't back yet either, and I'm beginning to wonder if they're coming back, though Fall is still a ways off.

They watched it cross the drainage and climb up, then lept to the rock ledge above the road, an easy lift of 15 feet for a big cat, and disapeared. Sammy said all he could see was the tail for the longest time, still swishing.

"I'd just gotten there, the others had been waiting for me to lock the gate again. All I saw was movement, that giant tail, and a set of balls."
We've had cats around before. They always sniff at the old indian's place behind the hill in the coulee. But he see's those tracks every year. This year was different. Reports were coming in from all over. everywhere. It was getting ridiculous. Bart said the big toms used to cross the valley way back on my mountain, a couple of miles. I guess that's changed. Now they cross right behind the house. In broad daylight.

Well, first thing, no more playing outside alone for the kids. They have to be together. No more hikes up the mountain without me. And Carter's khukuri is staying either by the front door where he can reach it as he leaves, or by the fence when they're all outside. He has a 16" WWll.

I've seen what my patio looks like from the mountain. It looks like a doggie dish loaded with sweet meats- my sons.

There's a Mosin Nagant sitting next to me, a Finn M39 I just tested. With iron sights and my bad eyes I get 2" from a bag at 80 yards. I can't see the bull very well at one hundred, though I could still come close, it would no longer be an accuracy test of the rifle. The Big Finn would be useful with those 180 bullets. And it's so large and heavy, so obvious, you'd think anyone even thinking about touching a loaded gun would think twice because it's something you couldn't hide and everyone would notice. My sons don't touch the weapons, but I can't speak for other peoples children. I put them away when we've visitors. Well, Anton and little Sam aren't coming by soon; their mom said they can't play over here because of the cougars. My wife has this idea the gun room should be locked with the Finn inside, but I'm not screwing with locks if I hear a single shout outside. So, what to do? We've always carried khuks or guns or both while hiking. The khukuri is one of the few blades that I would bother carrying, because any legitimate swipe from it onto the form of a cougar and the cat is going to die there or later. If it's later, as the cats do, they will run off when severely wounded. Of course I don't write that down in the Bible, but that's generally what they'll do if injured bad.

I'll have to crank out some handgun loads and get the revolvers centered again. No sense running outside with a slab of iron without knowing how close to point of aim the bullets are striking. The Finn is three inches to the right.

No, it's not hunker in the bunker, but you can feel this is a special year, and I don't want one minute in my sons life to change it forever. So I guess we're just going to be on Cougar Patrol for awhile. I wonder if I should even start carrying a handgun all the time?

For now on I'll walk with the boys down the hill to the bus in the early morning hours. Soon, it'll be dark as they rise.
It's been a special year. And this summer, the cougar reports just won't quit.
You can feel it in the warm air outside. Something could happen this year.
I'll see what the Cougar tag regulations are tomorow.


munk
 
You need a couple of big bad American Bulldogs.
A male and a female.
Performance strain. No Johnson.
Bred for protecting farms from problems like this for thousands of years.

Personally I'd track that cat down if was hanging around my house.
Action is faster than inaction.
 
Munk, if it was me, I would err on the side of caution. I'd be carrying that .41 mag everywhere. If the cat is close enough to be a threat, he's within pistol range for sure.

--Mike L.
 
I could hit a cougar a pretty good ways with the 41. Less far if he's carrying a child and the target smaller. My bad eye affects target accuracy, not so much field real world accuracy.

A real problem is how easy a cat could carry even my largest son away. He might be over the mountain and gone to the next by the time I was 1/4 of the way up. I can follow with a handgun, but how well? And if I stay, which is unacceptable, to call for hounds and rangers and back up, we know they wouldn't get there in time. No, my only chance is to stop it before or just after the event. There is some chance too that being followed, it will slow and possibly drop the prey. It might stand and wait for me, thinking to eliminate me as a threat to the food source.

I'll not carry the big Finn up the mountain. The revolvers are coming out of the safe.

munk
 
munk,
I agree with grappler. Dogs. Even with other things you may do (carry pistol, keep rifle by the door) the dogs will give you time to get to your sons. Most likely their presence will simply keep the cat away. I have two young daughters. We don't have many predators here but I like to keep a close eye on them anyway. My lab does too.
 
More deer equals more mountain lions. Their population has exploded out here. Dogs have been killed by them, including some big aggressive dogs you would not take lightly.

I read a while back that at the turn of the next-to-last century (1900), there were only 25,000 deer left in the entire CONUS. They were almost wiped out from being hunted by virtually everyone. 10 years ago there were an estimated 30,000,000!

Laws like the moronic Prop. 117 here in the PRK back in 1989 or so, made things even worse by spending 1.8 billion over a 30 year period to protect the lions and set aside new habitat for them. Hunting with dogs was also banned.

There are lions out at the old Fort Ord here. My favorite packing gun is a 3" Smith M29 round butt, from Lew Horton. Actually, it's the only light-carry big bore I have. Of course I would be fined if I harmed one of them, but I guess I could live with the trauma.

Of course, you would only have a second to get a shot at one, they move so fast.


Norm
 
I agree... carry the .41 whenever anyone is outside. Dogs are good too... but not a choice if your wife is allergic. I was feeling a bit under-armed when carrying the SW 640 this summer when two cats were prowling our neighborhood (two youngster mountain lions... one died from starvation, the other captured by G&F). My dog didn't want to go out for walks most of the month of July.

You might give the kids one of those canned air horns to carry with them (one each). Sounds stupid, but it is safe for them to handle and if needed might scare a cat off (and alert you) long enough for you to intervene. Most "experts" say to make yourself bigger... scare cat, etc... That or maybe a can of bear spray, but that'd require closer contact with the critter.

I prefer a .45/70 Guide Gun... but that might be a bit overkill for a cat.

Luck

Alan
 
Pepper spray doesn't work when the cat is engaged. Cane over head doesn't work. Yelling doesn't work. Halon fire extinguisher WORKS. I know from experience.
 
Damn, Ted, tell us. Best thing about a thread is the stories that come out of it.

I know of a case where a bike over the head did work, and others where a stick drove them off. You must have had one determined kitty.


munk
 
Dogs are snack packs for cougars; I've read of a number of confrontations where people with a small dog (and often kids) encounter a cougar. The usual story theme is that Fifi protected the kids from the cougar, but I suspect the cat was more interested in the dog. Probably best not to hike with a (small) dog.
 
Yes Ted... do tell :D.

A shot of halon up the snout will drive off (or kill) just about any critter depending on the type of halon. Some of that is toxic as heck... or was back when I was an AF firefighter (a long time ago).
 
A gun can reach out 20 yards as the child is being carried away.
If you know your weapon and your skill level.

That's the big limit with a khuk. You have to be hands on distance. STill, next to a good revolver, the khuk was the first blade I felt comfortable with in Cougar country. Any blow with any force at all will deliver an injuring the cat may not recover from, if it doesn't dispatch him right there and then. Most likely he'd run off.

There are canes and then there are canes. Some of the canes Rusty carried would cave in a skull, and kitty could not ignore that. Being able to swing with force and not hit your human companion is a tricky part.


munk
 
Yipes. I'll stick with the bears here in Alaska, thanks very much!:eek:

Sounds like Munks pretty well got it fgured, and is dealing with the problem to the best of his ability. (Although I'd personally have a real tough time trusting a MN)

No grand lines of advice here, Just wishin' Munk and his family well.
 
Thanks, Runs with Scissors. I trust this MN because the Finn's made it. They took the Russian basic and made a rifleman's rifle out of it. I'll bet it'll do under an inch with preferred loads at a 100 yards. The round is certainly capable. I like it because I can take the cat out if he pauses on any of the limestone bluffs over the house. It's better than a revolver in that respect.

IT shows how woebegone my reloading has become, though, that I've a factory load in any rifle of mine. My 45/70 Marlin microgroove is still a great choice. All my revolvers are great, 4 41's, 44, 45 Colt, even the 38 Special and 32 HR would do it if loaded properly. For that matter the 45 acp 1911 or the 10 mm, but neither of those is sighted in properly with factory loads.


This is what happens when a guy stops reloading and all he has is factory fodder.

munk


I Want Ted's Story
 
I worry about a lot of bad things befalling my children. A cougar attack has not yet made the list. Take care munk.

I'm interested in hearing your fire extinguisher story, too, Ted.

Eric
 
Well, hypothetically, let's say one of the cougars staying with us is a little inbred. This means he does NOT give the normal warning signs of aggression(swishing tail, etc) He will go from nice friendly cat to "I'm going to kill and eat you" with no warning. Let's say he managed to grab a volunteer one day and decided to not let go. One of the trainers was trained in Hapkido(I think) and had his MA cane there. Broke it over said cat's head, no effect, stun gun, no effect, same with punches and kicks(well, actually the cat got really pissed). Cat was completely focused on the job at hand and would not let go. Lots of people were yelling and screaming, probably about 7 people all together and he didn't care. Someone finally got the halon fire extinguisher and that did the trick. Kitty didn't like that at all and broke off the attack and went in his den. It wasn't even a solid shot and I think a regular extinguisher might have had the same results. Main thing is the cat didn't know what the hell it was and vacated Dodge in a hurry.

Munk, I doubt the cat would retreat from it's prey after it's attacked unless it is sure it won't win. The time to scare it off is before it attacks.

I've said it before, cats are hardwired for quadrupeds and don't really know what to do with bipeds. However, if they bend over to tie their shoe, leaned over on the ten speed, basically anything that puts them in a quadruped shape the cat knows where the neck is and will try to break it on it's first attack. I've seen Apache rip chunks out of a modern tire with very little effort.
 
Munk, I would think you would have no trouble running up and placing the muzzle of the .41 against the cat if it was in attack mode. Use the rifle for the long shots if you can get them.
 
The story at last! And a good one.

The reports I've read, and that's a bunch because I read all the articles I can find on the big cats, say you can indeed scare a cat off the victim. Not so for a African beastie, but this is a North American Cougar. It's problematic- sometimes yelling will do it, and per your encounter, sometimes a cane won't do it. One incident in BC a bicycle crashing into it did the job.

I have to say that's a sobering account about that cane.

Trust nothing when dealing with the big cat, and try anything or everything is my motto. Your cat was dependant upon man, he's not a normal wild cougar. God only knows what's going on with him.

munk
 
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