Could somebody please help me bust or confirm this myth?

[res1cue]

I don't know why I believe this, but for some reason I am under the impression that in similar frame or liner locks, titanium is stronger but wears faster.

I know that it is commonly accepted that titanium liner/framelocks are stronger, but is it true that they wear faster?

 

[SusAntigoon]

I would find that a bit surprising. My sebenza doesn't seem to wear out any faster then any other frame locks, I can say that much!
But I do seem to remember reading somewhere that the top end of the lock, the part that engages the tang, is hardened differently specifically for that reason.

 

[brets-ftw]

i wouldnt be surprised if it did, it would explain having a steel insert on some of the frame locks ive seen

 

[LX_Emergency]

I would find that a bit surprising. My sebenza doesn't seem to wear out any faster then any other frame locks, I can say that much!
But I do seem to remember reading somewhere that the top end of the lock, the part that engages the tang, is hardened differently specifically for that reason.

From all I've read this is true.

Titanium is more springy and flexible than steel making it more risistant against bending. However it being softer it also wears faster. Thus the Reeve hardened lockface. And the steel inserts in some framelocks.

 

[vwspdshp]

Ti is softer than hardened steel, so the lock face of the Ti is hardened with carbide. This extends the life of the lock face, but it will still wear over time. All locks wear though, and most have a very long useful life. I don't think Ti has much strength advantage is terms of a lock, if compared to steel. It's lightweight for it's strength, and finds its way into knife design on that merit.

 

[kawr]

Titanium wears faster than steel but good framelock makers like Chris Reeve heat treat the lock face to harden it so it wears better. Just take a look at Sebenza owners that have not had their framelocks budge at all in over a decade while many stainless steel liner/frame locks dont last even half that long. To be fair the longevity of CRKs is probably mostly due to incredible tolerances and engineering more than materials. As for pure strength I'm pretty sure steel is stronger but titanium is lighter, springier, tougher and completely rust proof. Pound for pound I dont think titanium has much competition from stainless steel as a knife material.

 

[res1cue]

Ah.. gotcha.. thanks for all the info..

What would you guys say is an average lifetime of a decently made linerlock? I lean more towards axis and triad, and the only liner locks I will use are the Al Mar Sere and CQC 8. After two yrs of almost daily carry, I am shocked to see that the liner on the Sere 2k has traveled to halfway.. is this normal? I haven't abused it or anything, and I can see that from there the end of the tang curves steeper, maybe the more you wear it, the slower it wears?

Also, should I shy away from using the Ti liner on the cqc 8? Or do you think Emerson is reputable enough of a company that they differentially heat their lockface?

 

[Poez]

Titanium against steel makes a stronger pair compared to steel to steel combination. So I have heard.
But the very thing that makes the locks stronger probably leads to faster wear. And titan wears faster than heat treated steel anyway.
So I do not believe that is a myth at all.
That is why I like AXIS.

 

[vwspdshp]

Most locks are designed to wear in to 50-60%, then hold that for as long as possible. Emerson locks are good, as are most of the big names. Framelocks last a long time and are built with wear in mind. Many of the most popular locks have about the same amount of wear engineered into them. I find, through personal experience, that the weakest part of any liner/frame lock is the stop pin. That's why many hard use folders generally have dual stop pin construction which doubles as thumb studs. I only have one knife that I've used enough to walk the liner lock all the way across, and it was do to wear on the stop pin. The stop pin was replaced and the lock is back at 40%.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Only certain alloys of titanium can be hardened, and only a couple points on the HRC scale and it tops out in the lower 40s. Since the Rockwell scale is logrithmic hardened steel at 60 HRC is going to be significant harder than even 'hardened' titanium.

Since titanium is usually on more expensive knives and steel lock bars are usually on cheaper knives. I don't know but I doubt most steel lock bars are hardened to match the blade tang. I would also think a steel lock bar would need to be differentially hardened so that it can flex and not crack. So a unhardened steel lock bar probably wears closer to titanium than what it has the potential for. I think a titanium lock bar with a hardened steel insert is going to give the best performance and would be the easiest solution if worried about long lock life.

That being said why worry about all this when there are much better locks available where lock wear isn't an issue. I will be glad when the patent on the AXIS lock expires and other makers can use it. IMO it is the best lock design available.

 

[ssblood]

Ceramic ball on the umnumzaan. Don't know that it could wear out in the foreseeable future.

 

[THE PUNISHER]

i did not no that,thanx..

 

[Mossyhorn]

Titanium is certainly stronger and more wear resistant than aluminum. As far as being less likely to bend and more apt to spring back than steel, I don't think that is the case. Titanium is not used as a gun barrel because of it's lack of memory. A steel liner is used on all titanium barrels.

 

[vwspdshp]

Axis locks wear just like any other metal to metal contact situation. The bar travels further up the tang with wear, you just can't see it as easily as a liner/frame lock. In my opinion the longest wearing locks would be Spyderco's ball based locks. They allow rolling which cuts down on wear, and the contact point on the tang is smaller. These locks also allow for slight side to side movement of the ball, which translate to more usable locking surface on the tang.

 

[The Government]

Just to clarify, I think I have this right...

Saying that "titanium is stronger than steel" is false. If you had two liner locks and one was steel and the other was titanium and they were the exact same shape and size -the steel lock would be the strongest. Titanium is said to be stronger "by weight." In the previous example, the titanium liner would have been lighter than the steel liner. If you made the titanium liner thicker -to the point that its weight equaled that of the steel liner, then the titanium liner would be stronger and bigger -but of equal weight.

There are other variables as well, but I think that is the basic idea above.

 

[kreole]

Just to clarify, I think I have this right...

Saying that "titanium is stronger than steel" is false. If you had two liner locks and one was steel and the other was titanium and they were the exact same shape and size -the steel lock would be the strongest. Titanium is said to be stronger "by weight." In the previous example, the titanium liner would have been lighter than the steel liner. If you made the titanium liner thicker -to the point that its weight equaled that of the steel liner, then the titanium liner would be stronger and bigger -but of equal weight.

There are other variables as well, but I think that is the basic idea above.

Yep, that's it. The Spyderco Military, for instance, has a much thinner liner lock bar than RIL lock bar, but by design they are the same strength.

I think people see the thicker slab of Ti and assume it's stronger than thinner steel, but that's not the case. As you say, Ti's useful property is it has a good strength to weight ratio, not its strength to size ratio.

 

[5.56]

Spyderco has addressed this issue with a steel insert that also acts as an over-travel bar.

Here's my Ti Mil broken down, it has the best of both worlds.

 

[res1cue]

Thanks everyone for all your edumacative responses. So what do you guys think is the "average" lifespan of a liner-lock on a good brand knife (al mar, emerson) with average non-abusive usage?

10 yrs? more? less?

 

[stabman]

Thanks everyone for all your edumacative responses. So what do you guys think is the "average" lifespan of a liner-lock on a good brand knife (al mar, emerson) with average non-abusive usage?

10 yrs? more? less?

More than 10 years unless you flick them out hard alot for no good reason.

 

[me2]

Just to clarify, I think I have this right...

Saying that "titanium is stronger than steel" is false. If you had two liner locks and one was steel and the other was titanium and they were the exact same shape and size -the steel lock would be the strongest. Titanium is said to be stronger "by weight." In the previous example, the titanium liner would have been lighter than the steel liner. If you made the titanium liner thicker -to the point that its weight equaled that of the steel liner, then the titanium liner would be stronger and bigger -but of equal weight.

There are other variables as well, but I think that is the basic idea above.

Saying titanium is stronger than steel is so vague as to be meaningless, to those of us who are into this sort of thing. The alloy and heat treatment must be known for both steel and titanium. It's not even true to say titanium always has a better strength to weight ratio than steel.

When people make such general statements, they're usually comparing their favorite material (titanium, aluminum, kevlar, etc.) to a structural steel called A 36. It was the standard structural steel for decades, and has only recently (last 10 years or so) been pretty much completely replaced by higher strength grades. To meet the requirements for A 36, the steel must have a MAXIMUM strength of around 50,000 to 55,000 psi in tension. Comparing highly alloyed titanium grades to A 36 is a bit like comparing pickup trucks hauling capacity to semi's.

Also, titanium is not completely rust proof. Stick some in a bucket of wet concrete and see what happens.

Soapbox removed.

On topic, I thought part of the problem was that the titanium lock face would deform under hard use, thus causing some looseness in the lock or further travel of the lock bar. FWIW, I've never worn out a good liner lock, no matter the material. The liner locks I've owned were limited to Kershaw, Columbia River, and Benchmade, so outside those 3, I don't know.