Council Tool Premium Velvicut Axes

[Pipeman]

I feel the same way. I'm interested to hear how the quality is in the final product, but I won't buy one because my vintage axes are as good or better than anything made today. I would still like to see an American company making some of the best axes around for those looking to buy a new axe.

Hey Brab
Glad to hear there is someone as cheap as I am out there
I simply carry a file in my truck so I can "feel" the edge of the blade and tell how well it was heat treated. I just got a Canadian made True temper black prince hatchet, the file almost skidded across the edge, the thing sharpened to a razor edge. Cost me a buck in a junk store

Best regards

Robin

 

[rg598]

Originally Posted by RG598 "Dude! Deep breaths! "

Ross, please save us the patronizing. You didn't jump on the Council bandwagon until after other people were buying them, and a simple search of the threads reveals that nobody wanted to buy a Council axe. Nobody wanted an axe with a hardness range of 45-55RC at the bit or 28" Hudson Bay axe from them, and their pictures sucked (and I told them this). I've held off on calling you out but your snobby sarcasm and holier-than-thou attitude has gotten real old around here. Please go back to your day job of living off your trust fund and reviewing gear that you don't have to work for, and while you're at it, add a few more pics of yourself to your site so that you can bask in the glow of your wonderful self. Moderators, if you find my post offensive then feel free to delete it, but some things just have to be said

Wow, that’s a lot of pent up frustration that you just let loose over here, and unfortunately, it landed in the wrong place. So far, I’ve been one of the few people who has defended you on this forum as a decent guy, but I guess that’s over. I’m not even going to dignify most of your comments with a response, but I will address two points that you made.

The first point is that I look down upon people who have less money. Aside from the fact that fact that you have no idea about my income, if you actually bothered to read my posts, or just remove the “sour grapes” glasses that you have on now, it will become clear that you are absolutely wrong. In fact, most of my reviews are on low cost products precisely for that reason. My first axe review was on a $30 axe and my last one was on a $10 hatchet.

The second point is your assertion that you somehow singlehandedly introduced Council Tool to the US market because of your posts both here and on Bushcraft USA. Like I said before, maybe the fact that they have been in business for over 100 years has something to do with it, or even the fact that they were featured on TV. However, just to make sure, I went on Bushcraft USA and did a search of your posts. You have done exactly four (4) threads on Council Tool axes, going back only four months. The threads are dated November 10, 2010, November 23, 2010, December 25, 2010 and January 22, 2011. On the same site there have been threads on Council Tool axes, including pictures, reviews and recommendations going back to 2009. (The posts by Old Pa have some good pics). That probably explains why there has been interest in Council Tool axes going back more than four months and allowing the company to stay in business. I apologize for not doing the search on this forum, but I’m not sure how to do it.

I have not jumped on anyone’s bandwagon either before or after your posts. I’m happy to point out the negative and positive sides of each product, and I think I have done so in my reviews. As far as me buying and testing Council Tool axes after others had done so, that is absolutely true. People have been using their tools for over 100 years.

Clearly your comments have nothing to do with Council Tool, or probably even me. I must honestly say that I have never seen someone get so upset because they didn’t get a free axe (it’s not even the finished product), and then go on a rampage against random people. What you refer to as “calling people out” is just you making unsupported accusations about members of this forum and doing it in a very rude and childish manner.

Ross
http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/

 

[coloradowildman]

Wow, that’s a lot of pent up frustration that you just let loose over here, and unfortunately, it landed in the wrong place. So far, I’ve been one of the few people who has defended you on this forum as a decent guy, but I guess that’s over. I’m not even going to dignify most of your comments with a response, but I will address two points that you made.

The first point is that I look down upon people who have less money. Aside from the fact that fact that you have no idea about my income, if you actually bothered to read my posts, or just remove the “sour grapes” glasses that you have on now, it will become clear that you are absolutely wrong. In fact, most of my reviews are on low cost products precisely for that reason. My first axe review was on a $30 axe and my last one was on a $10 hatchet.

The second point is your assertion that you somehow singlehandedly introduced Council Tool to the US market because of your posts both here and on Bushcraft USA. Like I said before, maybe the fact that they have been in business for over 100 years has something to do with it, or even the fact that they were featured on TV. However, just to make sure, I went on Bushcraft USA and did a search of your posts. You have done exactly four (4) threads on Council Tool axes, going back only four months. The threads are dated November 10, 2010, November 23, 2010, December 25, 2010 and January 22, 2011. On the same site there have been threads on Council Tool axes, including pictures, reviews and recommendations going back to 2009. (The posts by Old Pa have some good pics). That probably explains why there has been interest in Council Tool axes going back more than four months and allowing the company to stay in business. I apologize for not doing the search on this forum, but I’m not sure how to do it.

I have not jumped on anyone’s bandwagon either before or after your posts. I’m happy to point out the negative and positive sides of each product, and I think I have done so in my reviews. As far as me buying and testing Council Tool axes after others had done so, that is absolutely true. People have been using their tools for over 100 years.

Clearly your comments have nothing to do with Council Tool, or probably even me. I must honestly say that I have never seen someone get so upset because they didn’t get a free axe (it’s not even the finished product), and then go on a rampage against random people. What you refer to as “calling people out” is just you making unsupported accusations about members of this forum and doing it in a very rude and childish manner.

Ross
http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/

Ross, your response is a good example of what I already said. You exagerrate to make yourself look good\smart while making others look bad.

First off, I never said I introduced Council Tool to the "US Market". That would be a ridiculous statement. To quote myself, "I introduced Council to these forums", which is the niche market for upscale axes. This is a true statement and needs no defense. Check with Council on this if you feel the need to.

Second, your "defense" of me as a decent guy is fluff. Yes, you did say that my of questioning the QC on Condor axes in a thread shouldn't be personally attacked, but others said the same thing as well. You actually stated in that thread that you were neutral and said nothing of defending me personally. As a matter of fact, I can't ever recall you saying in any of my posts, comments, or reviews as saying "thanks", "good job", "great review", etc.

Third, and connecting with the above statement, you have gone out of your way to make me look bad recently because I've questioned or posted comments about my problems with Wetterlings or Husky axes. Remember your "snob" comments in my thread? That doesn't sound like a guy out to defend me. So your slick attempt to prop up your image here with these grand statements just doesn't mesh with the facts.

Fourth, regarding the timeline etc, it's actually more of a Bushcraft USA timeline, because that is where everything really got kickstarted started after my original Council Tool thread. The record is there for all to see. Before then there was a few threads like "anyone ever heard of Council?" or "I can't find any reviews on them, does anyone even have a picture?". I noted when I posted the threads (Nov 2010), so your attempt to make me look bad by mis-stating my comments is just another cheap shot.

Finally, regarding my sour grapes, yes, I did have some, and I even admitted it. Last October and November, I made a bunch of phone calls and spent many hours online searching for any bit of info in other forums and websites regarding Council. There wasn't hardly anything. Even the Modern Marvels reference was hard to find. I was trying to promote "Buy USA" plus I wanted to see a US maker of good bushcraft axes, so I really went at it with the hopes that what is happening now would happen. After the success of the threads at BCUSA, I directly asked Council to be involved in testing a prototype, so when I found out through the forums that I wasn't invited to be part of it I was very dissapointed. It had nothing to do with a "free axe". It was the excitement that I might be part of history, something I'm sure any axe nut could understand. This said, my original post never trashed Council in anyway, or trashed you. Your patronizing response was ill-timed and inappropriate, and then I did say things that I would normally not say. Your last few responses to me in other threads have been patronizing and a bit insulting, using the term "axe snob" more than once, so I guess it boiled over into my response today.

I apologize to the rest of the forum for the thread getting mucked up. But a little respect goes a long way, and I'm sorry to say that some folks here don't get that and tend to appoint themselves as the guardians of certain manufacturers and resort to sniping comments that ride the line between just shy of a forum violation yet obviously antagonistic. It's those comments that muck things up the most and impairs the ability of everyone here to really enjoy the forums.

Regards, CW

 

[killa_concept]

Goodness me! I wandered in here to see what Council had brewing, and happened upon this mess. Lemme run upstairs and grab me a cupo'tea and perhaps a scone or two - this might get interesting

 

[Pipeman]

I have popcorn ;-)

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I'll be very interested to see what the quality level on these babies is. If the quality is up with the other "big dogs" of the industry then the price seems reasonable enough. Chances are, though, that I won't ever get around to checking one out because I live not too far away from a place that deals in antique and vintage tools super cheap. A circa 1890's Plumb axe for $15? A Keen Kutter carpenter's hatchet for $12? Hard to spend over $100 on a new axe when I can get those kinds of deals. Besides--I'm more of a machete guy, myself.

Nonetheless it's quite exciting to see an American company kicking it up a notch. :thumbup:

 

[Steve Tall]

...I was trying to promote "Buy USA" plus I wanted to see a US maker of good bushcraft axes, so I really went at it with the hopes that what is happening now would happen. After the success of the threads at BCUSA, I directly asked Council to be involved in testing a prototype, so when I found out through the forums that I wasn't invited to be part of it I was very dissapointed. It had nothing to do with a "free axe". It was the excitement that I might be part of history, something I'm sure any axe nut could understand...I apologize to the rest of the forum for the thread getting mucked up. But a little respect goes a long way...

I'm going to stay out of interpersonal conflicts and simply say that it sounds like Council tools lost the support of a sincere advocate for their products, for the price of a test axe (or loaner, for that matter).

Maybe it's not too late and amends can be made.
Anyone listening at Council Tools?

 

[coloradowildman]

Steve, thanks for saying that.

I'd like to end this thread before anymore "popcorn topics" come up by saying that I apologize to Ross for getting personal in response to his posts that I believe were inappropriate and disrespectful towards me, while also saying that I believe he is an asset to the community here with his reviews etc. I still stand by everything else I said and hope that Council's new axes do indeed become the stuff of legends.

Regards,

CW

 

[rg598]

@coloradowildman-Prior to this thread I was not aware that you harbored any hatred towards me. You are certainly free to disagree with me or dislike me, whether it be because of the way I speak or the pictures that I have on my blog, or any other “fact” you wish to fabricate about me. If you were offended by a particular statement of mine, it would have been nice had you brought it up in that thread, rather than putting on this show. Perhaps then I could have simply pointed out that the remark you mentioned was not directed at you. Unfortunately, none of that matters now. Your apology is not accepted. Besides, as you well know, saying that you stand behind all of your statements, negates the attempt at an apology. I’ll refrain from any further discourse with you, and please feel free to ignore all future posts from me.

As far as your issues with Council Tool, that is between you and the company. While I believe that your statements about your involvement with the company and your introduction of their products on the forums to be verifiably false, and I have referenced at least one forum member who has posted Council Tool recommendations and pictures over a year prior to you, it is just not an issue I care to get involved with any further. I have no idea why they didn't select you for any testing.

If it helps alleviate some of the frustration, I have in no way been chosen to be a representative of Council Tool. They simply asked me for an opinion as some one who writes about a wide range of axes. That’s exactly what I gave them. I have no interest in being involved with any company in any way, nor do I want to promote, guard, or introduce anyone to any market. My interest is in their products. I will continue to do my best to write impartial reviews of those products. So, I believe the “being part of history” spot is still open. I have no interest in it. To the extent that you see me as competition for that role, there is no need.

@the actual thread-Just some updates from Council Tool. I’m told that the 4# Dayton axe which we have been seeing was never intended for the bushcraft community, and was not one of the products for which they were collecting input. It was designed to commemorate the 125th anniversary of the company. The same Velvicut line however, will contain several axes aimed at us. The first one to come out will be a redesigned (not sure to what degree yet) Hudson Bay axe, to be followed by a hatchet, a broad axe, and possibly a double bit cruiser axe. All the axes in the line will be made from the same higher grade steel and will come with leather sheaths.

 

[VintageAxe]

It's hard to be too impressed when they can't even get it hung properly. Though I suppose the steel could at least be worth something. Not $170 though. Besides, who keeps their axe in a box?