Counterfeit knife listed on Arizona Custom Knives

[BloodyDonnie]

(Pics at the bottom)
Thought I was tripping out when I first saw this. Endured several self-inflicted pinches before I realized it wasn't a hallucination.

Some of you may think it's not a big deal, its just a Sog, but think of this this way; let's give ACK the benefit of the doubt and say that they didn't know it was a counterfeit. Which means they failed to verify a blatantly obvious fake; the name on the knife doesn't even match the design, and that design with that colour scheme is non existent any legitimate Sog. Nowhere in the description does it say it is a counterfeit either.

So given this, it is very possible that other knives posted on their site are counterfeit. Imagine a better made counterfeit that is faithful to the real design. If ACK can't tell between this awfully fake Sog, how can they tell the difference with other more expensive knives?

It's a blatantly obvious fake sog this time. You can tell from the pictures. What if next time it's a very well made counterfeit sebenza that you cannot distinguish from the pictures?

Besides the pictures of this, nothing in the description points to it being a counterfeit. Even the price would suggest it is legitimate.

Its selling for $195, but through a quick search on google images I found an archive of an Ebay listing of the same knife for $22. You can see in the last pic.



D

 

[King of the Cheese]

Have you tried telling ACK about all of this?
I believe ACK runs on consignment and pumps out a lot of knives. I’m not sure what their authenticity verifying resources are.

 

[AVigil]

What did ACK say when you contacted them before posting here?

 

[razorburn]

Not impress at all. They should be able to verify knives.

 

[tltt]

I won't mention others, but this happens with all dealers, especially the high volume ones. Sometimes it works in their favor, sometimes it will work in yours. While it shouldn't have made it up there, what really counts is how it's handled after you tell them or after it's bought, and the buyer wants their money back.

Go tell them or send them a link to this thread. What happens afterward will tell the tale.

 

[Lance Leon]

I've seen various knives listed on ACK that have minor labeling errors (eg. mini 'x' knife being labeled micro 'x' knife or some models simply being called 'insert maker' folder). They seemed to catch and correct most of these mistakes fairly quickly.

I don't think it's reasonable for them to know every model and name from every production manufacturer and custom maker out there. That said, I would hope that they do inspect things and verify if they aren't sure. Hopefully this is just one that slipped through the crack and they'll rectify the issue by taking down the listing.

 

[craytab]

Oh man, that is really, really bad.

 

[Planterz]

I sure as hell wouldn't have known any better.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

They seem to rely on the customer for identification , and descriptions can often be wrong . They carry loads of knives and can't be expected to be familiar with every make and model. We on the other hand often focus on just a few and know them well. So I understand how this can easily slip by. However they can be expected to take action when notified and remove it. I don't think they immediately pay sellers, so if you were to land up with a fake, you could make a claim.
Being an informed buyer is always your best protection.

 

[craytab]

They seem to rely on the customer for identification , and descriptions can often be wrong . They carry loads of knives and can't be expected to be familiar with every make and model. We on the other hand often focus on just a few and know them well. So I understand how this can easily slip by. However they can be expected to take action when notified and remove it. I don't think they immediately pay sellers, so if you were to land up with a fake, you could make a claim.
Being an informed buyer is always your best protection.

Yeah, but with how obvious that fake is, it is clear that no one even dropped the name of the knife in to a google search. Would have taken a second or two. If they let crap like that slip by, they are no better than ebay. That is to say, is the process completely automated over there? As a seller or a buyer, what level of service am I getting by using a knife specific service? Seems not much different than the bay.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Yeah, but with how obvious that fake is, it is clear that no one even dropped the name of the knife in to a google search. Would have taken a second or two. If they let crap like that slip by, they are no better than ebay. That is to say, is the process completely automated over there? As a seller or a buyer, what level of service am I getting by using a knife specific service? Seems not much different than the bay.

I don't follow the brand so no red flags would have jumped up at me. I wish they would have known, but understand them not knowing. I think you would be amazed at how little even the large dealers know about the different knives, but what saves them is buying direct form the manufacturer. The difference between AZK and Ebay is that I believe AZK would care, where as Ebay only care that they are getting a commission.
I would be much more upset if reported they didn't do anything. With all our eyes on the sites we should be able to report and get it down before anyone is harmed.

 

[craytab]

The difference between AZK and Ebay is that I believe AZK would care, where as Ebay only care that they are getting a commission.

They didn't care enough to do even the most basic of research to verify this thing even existed. Hell, the blade clearly isn't a tanto. You don't need to know anything about the brand to know the title doesn't match the picture.

No matter how you slice it, the fail is epic. That is why I am questioning how they do things. If it is just automated with no one actually looking at anything, what's the difference from ebay? I've got no skin in this, never ordered from them and never even considered it. Just seems like major gaffe to me that goes against basically everything one would use their service for. I'm assuming the service they provide costs more than ebay, I don't know though.

 

[deadzonepatrol]

What should also happen is that AZK must look at all the knives it received from that particular seller (consigner) with a jaundiced eye. If one knife he sent in was a fake, there's probably more fakes that he sent in. Is he a legit owner culling his collection, or he is one of those counterfeit sellers using AZK to move his fakes?

There was a recent article by Blade magazine explaining why "provenance" (the chain of title or source) is important to look at when buying knives. Authenticity is one of the reasons you look for a new knife being sold by the maker or dealer.

I prefer buying knives new from maker when on AZK, but they eliminated that search category a couple of years ago when they updated their website. You cannot find new from maker knives quickly now. Instead, you have to check out each knife to see whether the description identifies it as new from maker. I don't think their new website is as good as their old one, to be honest.

Edit/Update: 12/8/2020 AZK recently (maybe a few months ago) re-did their website again. It now includes the ability to search for "new from maker" knives. Glad they listened!

 

[craytab]

Again, I have no experience with them or really know how they work but it looks to me like they sell a lot of knives that don't qualify by their consignment rules, this one included. Not even sure how the knife in question would even end up there.

 

[on_the_edge]

They didn't care enough to do even the most basic of research to verify this thing even existed. Hell, the blade clearly isn't a tanto. You don't need to know anything about the brand to know the title doesn't match the picture.

No matter how you slice it, the fail is epic. That is why I am questioning how they do things. If it is just automated with no one actually looking at anything, what's the difference from ebay? I've got no skin in this, never ordered from them and never even considered it. Just seems like major gaffe to me that goes against basically everything one would use their service for. I'm assuming the service they provide costs more than ebay, I don't know though.

That the fake is not a tanto is a pretty obvious red flag. To me, however, that could simply mean that the seller in describing the knife was just not knowledgeable about what a tanto blade is. Still, they probably should have checked into it a little more at that point. I'm not defending them or what's happened, but at least it was brought to their attention and hopefully they are quickly resolving the issue.

This scenario raises a bigger question though--how does AZCK verify the authenticity of their more expensive customs or one-offs? I think fakes of those knives are probably very few and far between if they exist at all, but verifying everything to be authentic is probably next to impossible.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

They didn't care enough to do even the most basic of research to verify this thing even existed. Hell, the blade clearly isn't a tanto. You don't need to know anything about the brand to know the title doesn't match the picture.

No matter how you slice it, the fail is epic. That is why I am questioning how they do things. If it is just automated with no one actually looking at anything, what's the difference from ebay? I've got no skin in this, never ordered from them and never even considered it. Just seems like major gaffe to me that goes against basically everything one would use their service for. I'm assuming the service they provide costs more than ebay, I don't know though.

Don't get me wrong-It is not a good thing or doesn't matter, but I understand how it can happen. They have a huge inventory of brands and makers. They pretty much carry everyone($200 Min.). To me it would be how they handled it when reported, and I wouldn't expect them to constantly make the same mistake. As I said in the original post-their descriptions can be off and as far as I know they don't do verifying, nor do they seem to advise on price(or at least not well). If memory serves me right they charge 25% .
Even on here you can get fakes listed(intentionally or not). Someone quickly spots them and they are removed.

 

[deadzonepatrol]

This scenario raises a bigger question though--how does AZCK verify the authenticity of their more expensive customs or one-offs? I think fakes of those knives are probably very few and far between if they exist at all, but verifying everything to be authentic is probably next to impossible.

The only stuff you can be 100% sure of is "new from maker". Sometimes they state that the papers (receipt, certificate of authenticity) are included. For production knives, the box being included is always a plus. For anything that is not "new from maker", you have to check out the maker's knives on the internet and see if the knife has the same style, maker's mark, steel types, so forth. I don't think AZCK does the homework. If it does, then it did a lousy job in this case.

 

[on_the_edge]

The only stuff you can be 100% sure of is "new from maker". Sometimes they state that the papers (receipt, certificate of authenticity) are included. For production knives, the box being included is always a plus. For anything that is not "new from maker", you have to check out the maker's knives on the internet and see if the knife has the same style, maker's mark, steel types, so forth. I don't think AZCK does the homework. If it does, then it did a lousy job in this case.

I have used AZCK and I agree that they likely do not check out customs, or at best, perhaps they randomly check a small percentage of what they get. And yes, I agree that the seller who consigns a knife to AZCK has a responsibility to ensure that their knife is authentic, but that doesn't help if the seller is trying to scam someone.

 

[craytab]

This scenario raises a bigger question though--how does AZCK verify the authenticity of their more expensive customs or one-offs? I think fakes of those knives are probably very few and far between if they exist at all, but verifying everything to be authentic is probably next to impossible.

Yes.

I didn't even know they were in the sub $200 SOG game. I'd be worried if my high end custom knife dealer wasn't able to keep a $20 fake SOG from getting through.

 

[craytab]

Don't get me wrong-It is not a good thing or doesn't matter, but I understand how it can happen. They have a huge inventory of brands and makers. They pretty much carry everyone($200 Min.). To me it would be how they handled it when reported, and I wouldn't expect them to constantly make the same mistake. As I said in the original post-their descriptions can be off and as far as I know they don't do verifying, nor do they seem to advise on price(or at least not well). If memory serves me right they charge 25% .
Even on here you can get fakes listed(intentionally or not). Someone quickly spots them and they are removed.

Plenty of stuff under $200. Knife in the OP as an example.