Countering terror....

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Oct 8, 2002
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So I am on the ferry boat crossing the Hudson to my job in NYC when I read how ferry boats are a possible terror target. Plots include explosives as well as possible attempts to commandeer the crafts and drive them into ships. I look up from the paper and notice that the captain and crew now keep the door closed (and locked I imagine) to the pilothouse. Now I know the risks are real low, but it is scary. I found myself looking around. (I know, that's what the terrorists want, but I DO NOT want to go out that way. No way). :mad:

What is a good anti-terror (more likely peace of mind) "tool" for a ferry-hopping commuter?
 
Well, big daddy, it seems everything is a possible terror target here. If you ask me, it's getting a little (lot) out of hand. Nobody knows anything, so everything and everyone is suspect.

On the trains here there are signs reading something like, "If you see something say something!" Encouraging people to report suspicious behavior. You carrying a knife or flashlight could very well qualify as suspicious behavior. Next thing you know, your facing the ESU and explaing how your knife is just a tool.

For defensive carry in NYC, I carry my Strider SnG. Strong fixed blade folder that's under the legal size limit (4"). If anyone every hassles me at least I'm completely legal.
 
Originally posted by Chief_Wiggum
You carrying a knife or flashlight could very well qualify as suspicious behavior. Next thing you know, your facing the ESU and explaing how your knife is just a tool.

For defensive carry in NYC, I carry my Strider SnG. Strong fixed blade folder that's under the legal size limit (4"). If anyone every hassles me at least I'm completely legal.
Wait a minute, how is a flashlight suspicious? And how would I be facing ESU, aren't we supposed to be secure in our personal possessions?
 
I hope you're being sarcastic...

It really doesn't matter what you or I feel is suspicious. It only matters what other people think. You're not going to report yourself, someone else is going to report you.

In a city where 99% of the population is unarmed, knives included, seeing someone with a knife or big "tactical" flashlight makes people nervous. "What do you need that thing for", "Why would anyone need a knife like that" and so on.

Just be discreet is all I'm saying :cool:
 
Originally posted by Chief_Wiggum
I hope you're being sarcastic...

...Just be discreet is all I'm saying :cool:

I'm not being sarcastic. My knife and flashlight are either in my bag or my pocket. My flashlight is a small Surefire and preparedness guides from the city recommend having a flashlight. I'm just questioning over whether they could randomly start searching passengers. Who knows, maybe they should.
 
What is a good anti-terror (more likely peace of mind) "tool" for a ferry-hopping commuter?


Numbers.

Riddle me this: how can four or five men with box cuters ("knives" with about 1" of exposed edge) take over an airplane with 100 or more other people on board? One-on-one, a good fighter doesn't need even a box cutter. Two-on-one is quite managable. Three-on-one gets difficult. But 25-on-one is impossible. Even if you've got a a pistol with 10 rounds, 25-on-one is impossible. And if you arm the passengers with blankets, pillows, magazines, and meal trays, it's over.

The paradigm at the time was that if we all cooperate with the hijackers, we'll all be ok. The premiss of this was that the hijackers wanted to live through it. Now, that premiss has been broken. There's a new paradigm. When Richard Reed tried to detonate his shoe bomb, the passengers themselves restrained him. They tied his hands with walkman headphones.

Make a committment: if something happens, I will be part of the mob.
 
All I have to say about the flashlight thing:

I flew from Baltimore to Milwaukee with a 4 inch flashlight in my purse no problem. When I flew from Milwaukee to Baltimore, my flashlight was caught on their x-ray and they thought it was suspect. I was pulled aside, asked what was all in my purse, and I was personally searched. They thought my flashlight was a pistol. (I am a blond, white girl who poses a threat to no one unless provoked.)

Just be careful what you carry. (Glad I remembered how many knives I usually carry in my purse so I took them all out before I went on my trip!)
 
We've been living with this in the UK for longer than I've been walking the planet. The best weapon against terrorism is showing that it won't work. That their objectives will not be acheived.

Originally posted by knifedaddy84
Now I know the risks are real low, but it is scary. I found myself looking around. (I know, that's what the terrorists want, but I DO NOT want to go out that way. No way). :mad:

That's only part of what they want. They don't want you wary, they want you afraid. They want to be part of every decision you make. They want sheep, not wolves. They want you to stop doing the things you normally do, going the places you normally go, etc. They want to be on your agenda. For the most part they don't even want you dead, that's why the IRA would often give good warnings before a bomb went off. They felt the political pinch when they let their anger and hate lead their actions.
9-11 was a big mistake for this reason. They created fear, but they also created resolve.

Originally posted by knifedaddy84
What is a good anti-terror (more likely peace of mind) "tool" for a ferry-hopping commuter?

You hit it on the head. Peace of mind. Your greatest tool is the peace of mind afforded by the best preparation you can make along with the best behaviour, observation and communication. The peace of mind that comes from knowing that we can't prepare for everything, or be vigilant enough at all times but that we as good as we can be. Prepare for the expected, expect the unexpected. But don't give up your life to it. Who wants to look back on the day they die and think "well, at least I didn't get blown up or poisoned, etc...but I sure wish I'd lightened up a bit and had a bit more fun...maybe in the next life"

As you said the risk is low. Once you're in the situation the stats change, and the risk is high. The ideas below can help reduce it. Also at some point you'll have to decide whether it is more important to help others or just concentrate on your own survival.

The 'say it, see it concept' is important. Everyone assumes that someone else will let the staff/police know about the unattended package, will give up the seat for the person feeling faint, will step in when someone is being harassed, etc. We've surrendered our personal responsibility to anyone and everyone we can. Don't assume that someone esle will report the package/scream/smoke. It doesn't matter if 2 or 10 of you do, but it will matter to someone if you don't.

Profile everyone. What are they wearing, where have they been, where are they going, sex, age, ethnicity, apearance, behaviour...but don't be ruled by your assumptions.

Observe and remember the people you become familiar with, talk to them (small talk, not tactical!) the people who know you will be your allies in a dangerous situation, but you, as a prepared individual, will have to lead them, so learn about leadership, communication, etc. Get to know the staff on the ferry (or wherever you go) and when they panic and you guide them, they lend you their authority. look for things that don't fit. Run through scenarios in your mind: hijack, explosion, fire, collision; pick out an 'enemy', decide on what his/her action is. What will you do? How will you do it? Escape, signal, comply, fight? Who are you with? Granny- comply or fight. Tactical GF- escape or fight. What are the variables? Unidentified accomplices (sleepers)? LEO who might mistake you for one if you fight? 50m from shore, or 1 mile? Can you swim? What resources do you have? Improvised weapons, other eqpt, cover? Where are you standing? Where *should* you be standing? what are the escape routes? where is the nearest phone? And so on...

Knife, flashlight, cell phone, first aid kit, buoyancy aid, all are part of your 'counter terrorist' kit but none will protect you without the knowledge, vigilance and resolve to put them to work. A first aid kit won't help you take out a lone bomber; a knife won't help you stop arterial bleeding (or will it?...quickly cutting out some material for a dressing or torniquet might make the difference for someone).

Sorry about the long post, I got a bit carried away.
 
Originally posted by knifedaddy84

What is a good anti-terror (more likely peace of mind) "tool" for a ferry-hopping commuter?
Rage. Pure, unfettered Rage. To continue on what Gollnick said, the reason those terrorists took over those four planes that day is because America has largely turned into a nation of cowards and a nation of sheep.

"Don't resist, give your attacker what he wants and you will emerge unharmed."

F--- that!!!!

We need to start fighting back. Your mind is the weapon. Everthing else is a tool. You can make a terrorist just as dead with a ballpoint pen as you can with a .50 BMG. (Though not as spectacularly! :D )

Hell, I've always thought to myself whenever on a plane; (even before 9/11) if anyone tries anything, I'm going to grab their head and twist as hard as I can. Simple, no tools required, and still makes them very dead.

Cultivate the proper mindset and mentality, THAT will be your best weapon. Be alert, confident, and ready to kill. A little saying has stuck in my mind; "always have a plan to kill everyone you meet." Its always stuck with me for some reason...

/soapbox. :)
 
Originally posted by knifedaddy84
Wait a minute, how is a flashlight suspicious? And how would I be facing ESU, aren't we supposed to be secure in our personal possessions?

Bwahahahaha! Have you read the "Patriot Act". We are secure in nothing.
 
For a daily ferry traveler I think a $1.99 kids inflatable swimming tube is not a silly thing to have in a briefcase. takes up no space, could keep you afloat longer than just treading water.
 
Jesus H. Christ! I've heard it all now. Lemme see if I got this right. Carry a daffy duck innertube and learn how turn it into a slingshot in the blink of an eye, profile everyone you see with jaundiced eye, make a plan for killing them if they introduce themselves or happen to speak to you, and doing things of this nature brings you peace of mind. Yeeha. Well, if your minds are weapons, how do you kill someone with jello? A very small amount of jello. You get this crap out of some underground comic book I'm not aware of?
 
Originally posted by knifedaddy84
What is a good anti-terror (more likely peace of mind) "tool" for a ferry-hopping commuter?
Have a good administration would help.
 
Originally posted by stich
Jesus H. Christ! I've heard it all now. Lemme see if I got this right. Carry a daffy duck innertube and learn how turn it into a slingshot in the blink of an eye, profile everyone you see with jaundiced eye, make a plan for killing them if they introduce themselves or happen to speak to you, and doing things of this nature brings you peace of mind. Yeeha. Well, if your minds are weapons, how do you kill someone with jello? A very small amount of jello. You get this crap out of some underground comic book I'm not aware of?
Yep, that sums it up, I suppose. I thought the Daffy Duck tube might actually work. :cool: But there are plenty of life preservers aboard boats these days, though. Living long enough to reach the water--now that's the challenge.
 
This whole thing has gotten out of hand.

The "terror alerts" are a joke as "we" cry wolf at every turn anymore.

And to worry about crossing on a ferry is to worry about taking a taxi is to worry about flying in a plane is to worry about riding the bus is to...

I don't do a thing differently than I have for the last 20 or so years.

Which means basically I am alert; aware; and if necessary can and will do the right thing at the right time for the right reason.

Otherwise it's just plain kwazy.

GW
 
Originally posted by Chief_Wiggum
I hope you're being sarcastic...

It really doesn't matter what you or I feel is suspicious. It only matters what other people think. You're not going to report yourself, someone else is going to report you.

In a city where 99% of the population is unarmed, knives included, seeing someone with a knife or big "tactical" flashlight makes people nervous. "What do you need that thing for", "Why would anyone need a knife like that" and so on.

Just be discreet is all I'm saying :cool:

I hope YOU ARE BEING SARCASTIC!

Legal or not, I think in a city of more then 8 million people more then 80,000 have knife of some sort on them. :rolleyes:
 
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