Countering terror....

[peacefuljeffrey]

Originally posted by Little claw

That's only part of what they want. They don't want you wary, they want you afraid. They want to be part of every decision you make. They want sheep, not wolves. They want you to stop doing the things you normally do, going the places you normally go, etc. They want to be on your agenda. For the most part they don't even want you dead, that's why the IRA would often give good warnings before a bomb went off. They felt the political pinch when they let their anger and hate lead their actions.
9-11 was a big mistake for this reason. They created fear, but they also created resolve.[/B]

I kind of disagree. I don't believe that what terrorists want is for us to feel fear and interrupt our lives. They want "what they want." It may be a state to call their own. It may be an end to the lives of all infidels. It may be, as Homer Simpson would call it, "a ...big...thing of riches." Terror is not their goal. Getting what they want by using terror is their goal.

Terrorists use terror as leverage -- even though as we well know hardly anyone anywhere just caves in and meets the terrorists at a table to discuss giving them their fill of whatever it is they've been demanding while all the killing was being done. So you would think that terrorists would have learned by now that they're wasting their time. But they haven't. They persist. Why? Because they have nothing to lose by keeping on doing what they have been doing. And part of it may be just motivated by hatred, i.e. just kill anyone you hate because they exist, and who needs a reason? For all the politically correct bullshit I've seen about how "Islam is a peaceful religion" it sure as hell seems to me that apart from the IRA, every time I hear of terrorist acts it's by Muslims. In Chechnya. In Spain. In the Philippines. In the U.S.A. If this religion is so prone to making people go psycho-fundamentalist, maybe its good is outweighed by its bad, and it needs to be really stomped on. This is my frustration talking, and if there are muslims here who are peaceful normal dudes and dudettes, I'm sorry. But you have a bunch of really rotten apples screwing up the WORLD right now. Does anyone doubt that if Al Qaeda terrorists had a nuke that it would be CERTAIN that they would set it off where it would do as much damage as they could possibly make it? This is FAR WORSE than living under the threat of nukes by Russia was. At least then, we had the reason to believe our enemies were too smart to just go popping them off around the globe. Now no one has anything that remotely resembles that assurance. Think about it: the ENTIRE WORLD is on its guard for Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. The only place unconcerned about it is Antarctica.

It's hard to know what we should do about terrorists, because when you step on their throats, it just encourages them to fight harder, doesn't it? But while an all-out eradication campaign is probably the only thing that would really ever do any good against terrorists, we seem to lack the resolve to do that. So the best you can do is live each day as though probability is on your side, since really it is.

---Jeffrey

 

[Little claw]

Originally posted by peacefuljeffrey
I kind of disagree. I don't believe that what terrorists want is for us to feel fear and interrupt our lives. They want "what they want." It may be a state to call their own. It may be an end to the lives of all infidels. It may be, as Homer Simpson would call it, "a ...big...thing of riches." Terror is not their goal. Getting what they want by using terror is their goal.

Terrorists use terror as leverage --

You're right, of course. Terror is a means to an end, a tool to achieve their aim, which is what I meant, but perhaps wasn't too clear about it.

Let's say they want their own state, this is their aim. Bombing an embassy will not achieve this. They have top get the relevant parties to the negotiating table, this is their objective. They have nothing to offer, so they need to create something of value. In this case they choose to create fear, they now have something of value to offer - the removal of fear. They have to create this fear before they can offer to remove it, so this is their first objective. This objective can be achieved by a bombing.

Fear and disruption is an objective on the road to acheiving that aim, so it is what they want, just not all they want. I would argue that half a billion westerners living in fear, changing their behaviour and pressuring their government is a more useful tool than a few thousand bodies in New York. The fear alone has its own impact, without any change of policy from the governments, look at the trouble the tourist industries have had, and the political rifts between the US and Europe over the war on Iraq. The fear is disproportionate to the actual threat, which is what most here seem to be aware of, but their exploitation of the media makes it real and makes it a more valuable bargaining tool than it should be. And many of you living in the US may not be aware of the image that Bush Jr has in Europe. They're afraid of YOU too!

To end the lives of all infidels is not a realistic aim, however, the fear created by the claim that it is and the loyalty and vigour that this creates in the mind of your followers may be a useful objective in acheiving your aim. Suicide attacks are a very convincing tool, but you won't find their leaders doing it. They very cleverly exploit the dissatisfaction of males of a certain age in our society and theirs, and blame it on the west. But suicide is already most common in males of this age, regardless of religious fervour.

Islam is a peaceful religion. It is unfortunate that certain unscrupulous parties use it as a badge of identification and authority, and twist words that could be found in any principle of just living. Waging war on enemies of islam could easliy have an abstract meaning - equivalent to love thy neighbour: i.e. fight the evil, not the person. This polarisation against Islam is also a threat to us, if we see islam as 'them', we are reinforcing our own fears and creating a bigger enemy by default.

]Originally posted by Greg Walker
This whole thing has gotten out of hand.

The "terror alerts" are a joke as "we" cry wolf at every turn anymore.

And to worry about crossing on a ferry is to worry about taking a taxi is to worry about flying in a plane is to worry about riding the bus is to...

I don't do a thing differently than I have for the last 20 or so years.

Which means basically I am alert; aware; and if necessary can and will do the right thing at the right time for the right reason.

Otherwise it's just plain kwazy.

Touche'. Which is what I meant when I said don't let it rule your life. But those who aren't alert and aware already would do well to start.

 

[drjones]

PeacefulJeff:

I agree 100%. I believe it was our own Gollnick who said; "Not all muslims are terrorists, but most all terrorists are muslims."

Strangely enough, I never seem to get a response to that statement. Go figure...

Originally posted by stich
Jesus H. Christ! I've heard it all now. Lemme see if I got this right. Carry a daffy duck innertube and learn how turn it into a slingshot in the blink of an eye, profile everyone you see with jaundiced eye, make a plan for killing them if they introduce themselves or happen to speak to you, and doing things of this nature brings you peace of mind. Yeeha. Well, if your minds are weapons, how do you kill someone with jello? A very small amount of jello. You get this crap out of some underground comic book I'm not aware of?

If you have a problem with being prepared, that is your own problem. I see nothing wrong, silly, or stupid with someone carrying what could potentially prove to be a life-saving device, be it a firearm, knife, flashlight, or floatation device.

How old are you?

 

[Blue Jays]

Good Evening All-

KnifeDaddy84, keep your knife and flashlight handy while riding the ferry. Statistically, I would imagine a psychotic Islamabomber would choose to be at or below the waterline to maximize damage to the vessel as well as people inside.

With that in mind, I would think your greatest chance for survival would be either outside or riding as high on the boat as possible. If it has a second level, that would be optimal. If weather is freezing cold, your odds improve because less people would likely join you to ride outside.

Position yourself behind life preservers, ventilation stacks, partitions, or anything else that could potentially provide cover. Latest-generation terrorists will likely be smart enough not to "telegraph" their (insane) intentions to a large number of observers.

My $0.02. YMMV.

~ Blue Jays ~

 

[stich]

I'm really surprised some of you paranoids ever left your closet. Sober up and read this thread again. I'd ROFLOL but I actually believe you think your claptrap makes sense. Pitiful. And jrjones, I remember where I was when President Kennedy was shot by one of those muslims (sic(k)) of yours. Can you even spell bigot?

 

[Rugger]

All I can say is that when I was living/working in NYC, I was such a volatile stress-ball that ANYONE f-ing around w/ my commute was in pretty serious trouble.
Hijack a ferry? Nah. Try to send it to the bottom of the river? Perhaps.