couple usmc combat questions..

i did some searching, and found this on a website. heres what the website said:

"The dependability and quality of the wartime kabars were a result of a stringent approach to their production. in addition to the contact on premised qualtiy control procedures of the U.S.M.C. and navy supply depot inspectors, dan brown, then president of kabar, and the entire kabar company were dedicated tomaking this knife their contribution to the war effort. as a result of the personal involvement, the kabar knife met all types of tests without failing. even tough marine and navy tests were supplemented by additional trials: driving the knife deep into a 6" x 6" timer, and straining the blade back and forth at extreme angles, constantly testing edge retention in cutting thru all types of materials, and submitting the leather handles to severe atmospheric and corrosion tests to be sure they would hold up under cold, heat, or jungle rot without loosening or decomposing. the many thousands of kabars produced during ww2 performed well, and the people at kabar were proud of the reports that came back from all areas of operation. As the war escalated, the demand for these knives was so great that the kabar factory alone could not keep up. the govnernment assigned several knife companies to create similar knives as supplemental pieces. among these companies were camillus, robeson and pal. kabars wartime production totaled more than one million. the kabar knives became so well recognized for their quality, and so abundant in number that 'kabar' became the reference to the entire knife patters, regardless of whether the knife was manufactured at the kabar facility. "

the first company, that shipped the knives, would make more sense, as to why theyre all called kabars. the second company being the more popular doesnt make any sense.
 
Hello,
This discussion is always interesting, who threw the first punch ;) From all the sources on the subject that I have researched, Camillus is said to have manufactured the knife first - for the Navy, and quickly adopted for the Marines. If KA-BAR is correct in their assertion, then all the prominent writers/historians on military knives are wrong. Either way one looks at it, its a great design for its intended purposes. "You be the judge" :)

Best,
Dan (Go Blue)
 
I didn't say it "made sense," but here's from the Camillus website:

5684L77 Marine Corps Sheath Knife
(Marine Combat) Of these knives included the extremely popular Marine Combat #5684 7-inch bladed survival/combat fixed blade. Camillus was the original contractor the armed forces chose to produce this piece. Ruggedly built, the Marine Combat boasted such features like a 7 inch black phosphate coated 1095 high carbon steel blade, a stacked leather washer handle, and a riveted leather sheath. The handle is even treated with a special chemical that resists moisture and rot, something that can certainly wreak havoc on leather while exposed to the elements. Undoubtedly, the 5684 was heavily used in the trenches for close quarters combat as well as general survival tasks for the thousands of young men risking life and limb for our freedom. Throughout the years following the armed conflicts, today Camillus is still producing the Marine Combat - for both the military as well as the civilian markets - to the original specs with no changes. The 5684 Marine Combat fixed blade fighter has withstood the ultimate test of time and has remained a popular design for Camillus. Total amount produced: 806,600
 
Here's what I think is probably a more accurate, middle of the road quote:

In 1942, soon after the United States entered World War II, Union Cutlery submitted a Ka-Bar branded knife to the U.S. Marine Corps for issue to fighting personnel. Although the original design failed to meet USMC requirements, the company was able to work with the Marine Corps on improvements. The Navy already had a fighting knife, by Camillus, the Mark 1. A revised design based on improvements to the Camillus Mark 1 was accepted as the "USN Fighting Knife, Mark 2". The Marine Corps version was manufactured by Union Cutlery, stamped Ka-Bar, and was issued as the standard USMC fighting/utility knife. It is identical to the USN Mark 2 except for the markings.

SO, Kabar's knife was rejected by the USMC, and they took the Camillus design and "modified" it (if changing markings even counts). I guess there's really no "winner" on this one!
 
And, while a lot of manufactures made the USMC knife, the USMC = Kabar did come from the fact that it was the company that had the most knives in the hands of troops. Ontario is currently supplying the military w/ their bayonets as of now.


Here's one more:

Camillus made the first USN fighting knife. The knife had a heavy, threaded butt and because of minor design flaws was promptly returned to the factory. Camillus redesigned the knife, replacing the threaded nut with a steel pin. The new design was deemed acceptable, hence the designation "USN Fighting Knife, Mark 2." PAL, made these knives under contract during WWII. The USMC version made by KA-BAR of Olean, N.Y., became so well known that this style of knife is still called a "Kabar" by army and Marine Corps ground troops, even if it's a cheap "Made in Taiwan" copy.

USMC is a copy of the Camillus USN Mk1 - identical copy. I'm gathering that Yes, Kabar made the USMC, BUT, it was a copy of the USN Mk1. I've got the Camillus - its an ok knife. Sounds like both makers kind of "leave out parts" of the story regarding their role in the USMC - I'd still credit Camillus as being the ORIGINAL maker of the knife. Adding new markings isn't innovation.
 
I think you are right about the different stories surrounding this knife. The bottom line is this, the knife already existed as a Marbles hunter design. It was just reworked into a militarized version. I have handled knives from both makers (WW II) and prefer the Camillus model for overall look. For the modern knife version, prefer the KA-BAR kabar.

Dan
 
yea, it is a marbles. ive seen that before. as in accuracy i prefer the camillus. but for overall toughness, it seems that kabars blade is thicker, the pommel a bit tougher, and the leather is hard, tight, and more built up at the bottom. just an overall better made knife. does it actually outperform the camillus? i dont think so. though ive never beat them both silly next to each other for a comparison (sounds like a good idea though) either. i would say they are equal performers from what ive used. But, in light of the recent events at camillus, my next 4 knives, will be another camillus marine combat, a yellow jaket canoe, another airforce survival, and another stainless camp knife. :)
 
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