Coyote Question

Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
313
I know there's been a few canine related threads here lately. Last night while camping in the NY Catskill region, I fell asleep to the sound of coyotes in the distance, very peaceful. At around 5:00 am I was blasted awake to the same sound, seemed less then 50 meters away from where I lay under my tarp. This continued about every 20 minutes till it got light, about 6:45. During this, around 5:30 I heard two quiet, distinct, canine sounding "yips" from different sides of my camp. I yelled out, shined my flashlight around (this has worked before with black bears and raccoons), but saw nothing. I know coyotes are becoming more bold in the NY area, but I can't find info about how aggressive they can be towards humans while moving as a pack. I figured this was a great place to ask. My 9 year old son wants to come with me next time, what do you guys think? Thanks.
 
Well, the yips are the giveaway. You're 100% right in your diagnosis.

Coyotes--and frankly dogs--are like people. Some are aggressive. Some not. You don't know what you have sometimes until it's too late.

I've encountered coyotes at Very Close Range (eye-to-eye distance while on foot) on three or four occasions. Each time, they bolted when they saw me. Does that mean I let my guard down? Nope.

Coyotes are smarter than we give them credit for. They aren't going to eat you or your 9-year-old son: so given a choice, they'd rather leave you alone and save their energy for killing something they can eat.

But you can get a crazed one. Or one injured or seriously pissed off at people. I would do what you did: shine light, make noise, and be annoying from a distance.

Fortunately, coyotes around here tend not to pack up. They are very isolated, and the most I've seen together was a male and female around Christmas, trotting past me less than ten feet away through a parking lot.

This is not always the case. A lot of people here report seeing coyotes in larger numbes in various different places. Geography, local food conditions, etc., require coyotes to adopt different behaviors. I cannot say for certain if coyotes by you will pack up, or if you just heard different, isolated coyotes all joining together in song.

Also, keep in mind that not all coyotes are 100% coyote anymore. There are an increasing number of coyote/dog offspring, who can easily adopt more canine traits like packing, aggression, and bullying.

A 9-year-old should be exposed to camping. He should also be woken up to listen to coyotes singing: it's an eerie but beautiful experience that not many people get to hear. But I'd stay in the tent or near the fire, along with a whomping club or other longer-reach weapon. Oh yeah, and properly store your food and trash so they have less reason to come nearer to you both.
 
I've run into dozens of coyotes over the years and have never known them to be anything other than afraid of people. I've chased them away on several occasions just by yelling and running at them. The have been a few reported attacks but they're very uncommon. Stay alert, carry a big knife (figure that's a given) and enjoy.
 
coyotes have expanded their territory from mostly west & southwest states all the way to canada. although most encounters are casual a young female folk singer from canada was killed in the 1st pare of last summer. this was authenicated by park personel in the popular hiking area where the attack ocurred. numerous encounters have been recently brought to public attention. this trend is looking to be a serious problem to address in the near future. personally i carry a pistol when in rural areas mostly for 2 legged predators, regardless of laws one attack that mains yourself or a youngster far outweighs possible bureaucratic actions henceforth.another excellent idea is the use of wrist rockets with steel bearings. a few good thumps with this ancient remedy usually will send nuisance characters packing.
dennis
 
Coyotes, like all animals (people included) are unpredictable. That being said I think that the chance of being attacked by a coyote while camping is far less than the chance of being involved in a severe auto accident on the way to a campsite. If it were me, I would take my son camping and follow the suggestions here to minimize the risks.
 
I deal with coyotes on a daily basis! Alone, they are pretty much just a small dog that I could kick 50 yards, but in a pack they could really do some harm! I sat across the valley one morning, and watched a pack run a healthy full grown German Shepard around in relays....then finish it off after they had exhausted it.

That said, I have never seen one be aggressive in any way to a human, and I see them close up all the time. I have not seen deer in my local hills for years, but am now seeing tracks once again. Going to get interesting, having deer added to the mix. Also, deer are mountain lion's favorite prey....

If I were worried about coyotes or ferral dogs, a tomahawk would be my favored weapon.
 
Last edited:
This subject, and their behavior is something that I have questions about also. They were in the next county west of me a dozen years ago when I lived over there and I heard of attacks on young cattle but never on people. Now they have ranged over the mountain ridge to this area now. I have only ever seen them in groups of two...I assume mating pairs...sometimes here on the road I live on, and they always run when I try to get pictures of them. But I am keeping my eyes on them and my ears open. There are also deer, rabbits, raccoons, and opossums on this road also as well as domestic cats and dogs. They definitely have a food source drawing them in.
 
They are becoming more prevalent here but I have not heard of them attacking. Everything I have heard and read says that they are more aggressive in a pack. To answer your question from the perspective of a father, if there is any doubt in your mind, don't take him there. Find another place where you feel more comfortable to take him. If you do hear/encounter coyotes, show nothing but confidence to your son. He needs to understand and respect, not fear. Best of luck to both of you.
 
I've encountered plenyto of coyotes when out and about.. heck we now have some that live in the heart of manhattan. I have never felt threatened by coyotes.. In my mind it is a non issue.. There are the occasional erports of an attack or a nip here or there. but if you compare the ration of attacke to the sheer numbers of coyotes, people and the potential for encounters. you have a better chance of winning mega millions that yo u do of being attacked.
All that being said I ususally take some form of capsicum or bear spray with me in to the woods, as a precaution.. paired with situational awareness, and common sense all things will be fine..I think a handgun is a poor choice for attempting to defend yourself from a pack of animals.. Taking shots into the darkness at darting predators amidst a Melee when you have your son nearby seems like not the best option to me.. But than again I'm not as experienced a handgunner as most.
 
I agree with Riley.

Also, keep the camp site clean...they're scavengers and if you give them any reason to come into your site at night and chow-down then they probably will. And certainly don't act like prey...keep your distance but hold ground.
 
Human-coyote conflicts by Cook County, IL, Coyote Project -

"One of the greatest conflicts between people and coyotes is the occasional attack on a domestic pet by a coyote. In some areas frequented by coyotes, it is not difficult to find an account of a pet attack or missing cat (presumed to have been eaten by a coyote) in the local newspaper. To increase our understanding of coyote attacks on domestic pets, we searched newspaper databases for articles on pet attacks in the Chicago metropolitan area. Through these articles, we found records of 70 attacks on dogs, 10 attacks on cats, and alleged attacks on a duck and pig. Since 1990, the number of attacks on pets in the Chicago metropolitan area has increased from 0-2 attacks per year to 6-14 reported attacks per year. We also found more accounts of attacks during the late fall, winter, and early spring than during the warmer months of the year. Cities and townships with the most reported attacks were Arlington Heights, Chicago, Geneva, North Shore, and Palatine.


Attacks on Dogs Almost 30 different breeds of dog were reported to have been attacked by coyotes. Smaller breed dogs were attacked more often than medium and large sized dogs, with 20 small breeds, 3 medium breeds, and 6 large breeds attacked. Although smaller breeds are more commonly attacked, larger breeds such as Labrador Retrievers and Golden Retrievers have also been attacked in the Chicago metropolitan area. Larger breeds of dog were usually attacked by two or more coyotes at a time. Attacks on smaller dog breeds were more often fatal (although some attacks on larger breeds were fatal as well). Yorkshire terriers and Shih Tzus were the breeds most commonly attacked (6 attacks each), followed by Jack Russell terriers and Labrador Retrievers (5 attacks each), and boxers and poodles (4 attacks each). Dogs were attacked while outside in their backyard (both alone and in the presence of their owner) and also while being walked by their owner in a park. If you are aware of coyotes in your neighborhood, it is important to exhibit caution when leaving your dog outdoors (especially if it is a small breed). Fences can help to keep coyotes out of your yard, but coyotes have been known to jump over fences. (The best fences for keeping out coyotes are at least six feet tall and have a roll bar on top.) Also, if you are walking your dog in a park frequented by coyotes, you should exhibit caution and perhaps carry a walking stick or mace to fend off an attack. Most importantly, make sure that no one in your neighborhood is attracting coyotes by leaving food outdoors. Dogs were attacked while outside in their backyard (both alone and in the presence of their owner) and also while being walked by their owner in a park. If you are aware of coyotes in your neighborhood, it is important to exhibit caution when leaving your dog outdoors (especially if it is a small breed). Fences can help to keep coyotes out of your yard, but coyotes have been known to jump over fences. (The best fences for keeping out coyotes are at least six feet tall and have a roll bar on top.) Also, if you are walking your dog in a park frequented by coyotes, you should exhibit caution and perhaps carry a walking stick or mace to fend off an attack. Most importantly, make sure that no one in your neighborhood is attracting coyotes by leaving food outdoors.


Attacks on Cats Although it is likely that some coyotes have attacked and killed domestic cats in the Chicago area, cat attacks are often more difficult to substantiate than dog attacks. Of the 10 cat attacks reported in the Chicago metropolitan area, almost half were lost cats that the owners assumed were eaten by coyotes (but attacks were not confirmed). The best way to ensure that your cat is not attacked by a coyote is to keep it indoors at all times! If you must let your cat outside, it is important not to leave food outside for your cat (or for other cats in the neighborhood, for that matter). Food left outside may attract coyotes, which may then attack your cat (or dog).


The most extreme form of conflict between humans and coyotes concerns coyote attacks on people. We conducted an analysis of coyote attacks throughout the United States and Canada to investigate the frequency and characteristics of these attacks. Prior to this, an analysis of coyote attacks on people had only been completed for California and other portions of the western U.S and Canada. We searched newspaper articles and scientific journals for attack accounts, and also contacted representatives from state wildlife agencies to verify attack details and receive information on additional attacks. In our search, we only included incidents in which humans were bitten by a coyote (this helped to standardize our definition of an attack and decrease the amount of speculation sometimes found in media articles). We located accounts of 142 coyote attack incidents, resulting in 159 human victims. These attacks took place over a wide geographic area, including 14 states in the U.S. and 4 provinces in Canada. Most attacks, however, occurred in the western U.S., with almost half of the attacks occurring in California and another large portion (14%) occurring in Arizona. We did not find records of any attacks on humans within the Chicago metropolitan area (or even within the state of Illinois). We also investigated the demographics of attack victims. We found that there was no difference in the frequency of attacks between women and men or between adults and children. However, children were the victims of the most serious attacks. Attacks generally fell into 5 categories: Defensive (the coyote felt threatened and was defending itself, pups, or a den); Rabid (the coyote was captured, tested, and diagnosed with rabies); Pet-related (the coyote attacked a person that was walking a pet, trying to save a pet from a coyote attack, or was just near a domestic pet at the time of attack); Investigative (the coyote bit a sleeping or resting person, testing it as a possible prey source); or Predatory (the coyote directly and aggressively pursued and bit the victim). Predatory attacks resulted in the most serious injuries. We classified 37% of attacks as Predatory, 22% as Investigative, 7% as Rabid, 6% as Pet-related, and 4% as Defensive (the other 24% could not be classified due to a lack of details). To determine patterns in the circumstances of attacks, we analyzed the activities of victims prior to attack. Most victims were doing some sort of recreational activity (such as camping, walking, or biking) when they were attacked. Many victims were also relaxing outside their homes, sitting on porches, grilling out, or sleeping outside. Most attacks occurred outside the residence of the victim or in a park. We also investigated the timing of attack incidents. We found that slightly more attacks occurred during the months of January through April (the breeding season for coyotes) than in other months. We did not find a meaningful difference in the number of attacks occurring during daytime versus nighttime hours. Most victims of coyote attacks were attacked by seemingly healthy coyotes. Only 15 victims (9%) were bitten by rabid coyotes. Most victims did not suffer serious injuries from the attack. The majority of attack victims were able to run away or scare off the coyote and stop the attack by yelling or throwing objects at it. Those that did suffer the most serious injuries were children. Only one fatal coyote attack in the U.S. and Canada has been recorded in modern history; a 3-year old female in California died of injuries sustained from a coyote attack. In almost a third of the reported cases, it was known that coyotes were being fed (either intentionally or accidentally) near the attack site. One victim was bitten while feeding a coyote and another was bitten by a coyote that was being fed by her parents. After speaking to wildlife officials in areas of known coyote attacks on humans, we strongly suspect that wildlife feeding was occurring in the locations of many of the other attacks, even though this was not documented."

http://urbancoyoteresearch.com/Coyote_Attacks.htm


As I suspected, humans are much more of a menace to coyotes than the other way round.
 
Heres my 2 cents, definately take your son camping its a great time for both of you and its priceless, i also live in upstate NY and frequently encounter yotes, recently had to take 1 out while practicing some bushcrafting i had my 4 month old pup "Ace" with me and this coyote could have cared less that i was 20 feet away from Ace when he came sneaking in to get his free lunch. Now keep in mind that i was just starting to gather and size up some wood for a fire and i was noy being quiet about it at all, this dog didnt care. Long story short he isnt around anymore to attack anything, the last thing that went threw his mind was a 50 grain 22mag.
So my point is, its better to have a means to a happy ending than to wish you had the means for it.....
 
Guys, thanks for the input. Baldtaco great link, thanks. I always keep a clean camp, mostly to avoid raccoons or skunks, during the night. But I believe a pack of coyotes would have a more aggressive way of searching my campsite for food. Also I'm fortunate to have pistol carry permit, and I always carry, but I'm glad it didn't come to that. You all make great suggestions, I'll bring the little guy next time, continue to take precautions. I guess it's not the first time my good night sleep was wrecked while camping.
 
Keep in mind that a full grown adult human is also a much more imposing figure to any animal that has aggressive tendencies than a younger child of any king would me.

Animals can detect fear and I think many times, that's what they act upon.

While you may not be fearful of the animals, if your child gets cornered alone, they may not be able to conceal their fear or may do something to induce the animal to attack.

Never take it for granted that a wild animal of any kind isn't capable of attacking your or yours.

I've never had a problem with coyotes, but I've been hunted by feral dogs twice while I was hunting. One time I was rattling and three dogs, a Rottweiler, a German Shepherd, and a collie of some kind zeroed in on me so fast I was barely able to get my gun ready. Those dogs totally recognized what the rattling was and more than likely in the past, had gotten a meal from attacking deer that were unaware of them. I killed the Rott and the shepherd, the collie took off at the first shot.

Another time I was turkey hunting and out of the corner of my eye caught some movement. There were two large dogs tracking me and when I stopped, one came for me, and it was dead serious. Luckily I had the shotgun, I'm not sure I would have stopped it with a rifle, as it was up close and personal. It was a mutt of some kind, I couldn't identify it. The other dog never got close enough to bust.
 
Don't know that I can add much to the thread as far as what you should do, some great advice has already been given that I agree with. I will share a personal experience though.

I'm Northern AZ and come across Coyotes quite often while hiking and hunting rabbits, never more than 2 at a time usually. However, once while hunting I saw one coming my way so I layed low just to observe it. Then another came trailing right behind it. Then another and another until there were about 10 coyotes total with about 3 or 4 small pups with them. By the time I saw the size of the pack I was practically surrounded with the closest dog to me about 40 yards away (this is high desert mind you). I thought I'd have some fun so I gave a little squeak on a mouse squeaker I had. What seemed to probably be the Alpha of the pack immediately bolted toward me. As soon as he came within 20 yards I sat up so he could see me, he immediately ran away. The others still hadn't noticed me so I stalked into them, they were pretty stationary at this point just looking around for rabbits it seemed. I got within 20 yards of one with the others ranging all the way out to 100 yards. After observing for awhile I started making some different noises to see what they'd do, they definitely seemed interested in what was making those noises but pretty much stood where they were and looked in my direction. After a minute or so of this I just stood up and all of them took off.

At no time did I feel threatened or scared during this whole experience. Looking back on it I guess I should have been but I guess I figured if I felt threatened I'd just start blasting them with my .22 (which I probably should've done anyways but the pups tugged on my heart strings a little too hard I think). 10 in a pack is a lot and its the most I've ever even heard of more less seen myself. If there was ever a time when they could have the upper hand on one human I think that was it. They all looked healthy and normal so that's definitely a factor I'm sure. It was a really cool experience for me, one that I'll always remember.

I think what I got out of it and what I can pass on is trust your instincts in a situation like that. If you feel threatened take the necessary actions. If you don't enjoy the moment and count it as a blessing.
 
“While you may not be fearful of the animals, if your child gets cornered alone, they may not be able to conceal their fear or may do something to induce the animal to attack.”

Interesting. Fear should be a motivating force. The latest research I am aware of with children being bitten by dogs is that many of them are “mind blind” to the dog's state. Using measuring apparatus to monitor exactly what young children attend to in the visual scene the evidence demonstrates that they pay attention almost exclusively to the dog's mouth. In short, deprived of other cues, it doesn't matter what the dog is doing the child interprets it as smiling. Accordingly, there is no fear because effectively there is nothing to trigger it. The child lacking the appropriate avoidance propulsion then gets bitten. I don't see why that limited focus of attention should apply exclusively to dogs so I'm fairly confident it is extremely relevant here. Certainly with dogs children need to be trained to attend to more features for best results. Letting them learn that in an unscaffolded way really is letting them learn the hard way, and most importantly is horribly unfair on dogs.
 
isn't that why they make handguns? We have too many coyotes to begin with.

I think we have establised that life threatening danger from coyotes, is rare if it exists at all. And when you have bears, cats, and feisty cattle to worry about, coyotes seem absolutely trivial. So, cranking off a round in a campground or near somebody's property just to get rid of a nuisance animal, might get you some unwanted attention!

But, edged weapons are silent and stealthy, so anybody here in bladeforums who is worth his salt, will be able to get the job done without making all that noise. (Anybody practiced tomahawk throwing lately?) I guess this is a "don't take a gun to a knife fight" situation....

We asked the county about doing some "coyote control", and animal control's assesment was that it would result in a huge increase in the number of racoons, opossums, and skunks. Might make sense?
 
Last edited:
But, edged weapons are silent and stealthy, so anybody here in bladeforums who is worth his salt, will be able to get the job done without making all that noise. (Anybody practiced tomahawk throwing lately?)
This is nonsense. Coyotes are skittish and will dodge the throw; and if they're in a pair or more, you're screwed. I'd recommend a firearm first. No firearm? A heavy stick. No stick? Rocks. No rocks? Maybe then a knife.

Ditto for feral dogs. Anyone worth his salt would know that.
 
This is nonsense. Coyotes are skittish and will dodge the throw; and if they're in a pair or more, you're screwed. I'd recommend a firearm first. No firearm? A heavy stick. No stick? Rocks. No rocks? Maybe then a knife.

Ditto for feral dogs. Anyone worth his salt would know that.

We are talking about defensive shooting, not "hunting" coyotes here. You going to go cranking off a round in a campground? I hear a round go off in a campground, unless there is a dead bear laying there, the first thing I am going to do is shoot the idiot that fired it!!!

I never said don't carry a firearm, just stating that it will usually be unwise to use it! I consider it a backup if ones life is genuinely endangered, not a primary weapon in this case.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top