CPM 154 or 154 cm

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big70tom

Joined
Aug 5, 2010
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Are these the same thing? Whats the difference. I see the 154cm on most new production Knives, and I see a lot of the custom guys saying they use CPM 154.
 
CMP-154 is the powder version of 154cm and yes there is a difference. The CMP version will be a much cleaner steel, you’ll notice that it’s much easier to sharpen and takes a very nice edge. I prefer it to S30V.
 
Yes, there is a difference. CPM-154 and 154CM have the same composition and the same basic traits, but the CPM version is a powder steel (CPM stands for Crucible Particle Metallurgy), which is going to be cleaner and more precisely structured.

Basically, the CPM-154 is tougher, takes an edge easier, and is generally a little bit better than the standard 154CM in every aspect because of the manufacturing process.
 
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Scott Neelan said:
Yes, there is a difference. CPM-154 and 154CM have the same composition and the same basic traits, but the CPM version is a powder steel (CPM stands for Crucible Powder Metallurgy), which is going to be cleaner and more precisely structured.

Basically, the CPM-154 is tougher, takes an edge easier, and is generally a little bit better than the standard 154CM in every aspect because of the manufacturing process.
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They are not really the same or close.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=CPM154,+154CM&sz=2&gm=0
 
Ankerson said:
They are not really the same or close.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=CPM154,+154CM&sz=2&gm=0
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They're close enough to each other that, even on that same link you posted, they're considered the same steel (look at the A.K.A. box). Yes, the manufacturing process makes a difference in performance, and yes the snuck-in vanadium is going to change the toughness and edge holding ability, but at they are close. Basically, take everything good about 154CM, bump it up a bit, and you have CPM154.
 
Scott Neelan said:
They're close enough to each other that, even on that same link you posted, they're considered the same steel (look at the A.K.A. box). Yes, the manufacturing process makes a difference in performance, and yes the snuck-in vanadium is going to change the toughness and edge holding ability, but at they are close. Basically, take everything good about 154CM, bump it up a bit, and you have CPM154.
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The performance is different enough as is the formulation. ;)

Believe me they really are a lot different, just ask any Custom knife maker since they are the ones who use CPM 154 the most.

The 2 steels aren't even in the same ballpark.
 
Scott Neelan said:
Yes, there is a difference. CPM-154 and 154CM have the same composition and the same basic traits, but the CPM version is a powder steel (CPM stands for Crucible Powder Metallurgy), which is going to be cleaner and more precisely structured.

Basically, the CPM-154 is tougher, takes an edge easier, and is generally a little bit better than the standard 154CM in every aspect because of the manufacturing process.
Click to expand...


crucible particle metallurgy.
 
Ankerson said:
The performance is different enough as is the formulation. ;)

Believe me they really are a lot different, just ask any Custom knife maker since they are the ones who use CPM 154 the most.

The 2 steels aren't even in the same ballpark.
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Admittedly my hands-on experience with CPM-154 is less-than-limited, so I'll concede the point before I dig myself a bigger hole.
 
Scott Neelan said:
Admittedly my hands-on experience with CPM-154 is less-than-limited, so I'll concede the point before I dig myself a bigger hole.
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I think the bottom line is, even though they may not be twins with exactly the same properties, they are both VERY good steels:thumbup: 154CM has stood the test of time and continues to be a very good performer in the areas of edge retention and ease of sharpening. I own more than a few folders made with CPM-154 and there is a noticeable difference in performance, but it's 154CM roots are very apparent
 
Yes there is a significant difference .CPM154 is my all around favorite .The CPM version takes a better edge, easier to sharpen ,holds an edge better.
I still don't know where the V came from !! The website www.crucible.com makes no mention of it ! The composition though is not a detailed one . Initially there was talk about adding V but afaik then never added it .The small amount mentioned in the zknives website is there for grain refinement .
 
CPM154 is a great all arounder and fir my uses I would pick CPM154 or RWL34(European steel that's identical) anywhere from 60-62 HRC over any other steel.
 
I don't know why that chart has V listed in it, that was debunked years ago.

CPM 154 is the PM version of 154CM. Saying it isn't essentially the same outside the process is like saying CPM D2 isn't the PM version of D2, or that samples of carbon steel with 0.9, 0.96, and 1.03% C aren't all 1095.
 
i have no experience with cpm 154, however, according to Crucible, cpm 154 and 154 cm have the same wear resistance, but the toughness and the grindability of cpm 154 is much higher.

Also according to crucible, CPM 154 and 154 cm have the same amounts of carbon, chromium, and moly.
 
I've asked the same questions and got pretty much the same answers.

I've never used 154CM but I do know for sure that CPM154 grinds nicely, polishes up very nicely, and takes a really good edge. I've only ground about 15 blades out of it but I haven't found an inclusion or "dirty" spot in it yet. It's also easier to sharpen than I thought it might be. I'm convinced it's worth the little extra cost.

Incidentally, I have used both regular D2 and CPM-D2, and again I think the CPM version is a worthwhile step up.

Don't forget that a lot of customers understand this stuff these days, and they will likely appreciate you using the best steel.
 
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hardheart said:
I don't know why that chart has V listed in it, that was debunked years ago.
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That V was added and removed twice. It's there because I had about a dozen emails from various sources insisting it's there and Crucible doesn't list it in the spec because V makes it more difficult to machine. Most of the other information provided by those contributors has been correct in the past, so I figured I'd leave it in there. Note for CPM 154 mentions V not being listed in official specs.

From my personal experience, crucible official specs sometimes miss certain elements, which often pop up in their own individual product brochures. Or don't have alloy listed in their steel selector at all.

Headheart, if you have the link(s) to some credible source about Vanadium in CPM 154, can you please send it to me?

Meanwhile I'll update the note, to make it clearer.
 
I just recently purchased a Buck 110 with CPM-154 and I am amazed with the steel. It sharpens up wicked sharp and holds its edge longer then my benchmade 154 cm. I still can't believe how sharp the edge gets on this. Maybe it has something to do with Paul Boss's heat treat, but I am really impressed with this steel. Very nice steel and it doesn't take much to sharpen it up.

Also, on a side note, I picked up a buck 110 420HC after the CPM-154 to use as a beater and I am very impressed with the 420HC has. It gets wicked sharp too, and though it doesn't hold it's edge as long as other stainless steels, it takes nothing to bring it back to an edge that makes other stainless steels cower in fear, other then CPM-154. I actually prefer 420HC's to many other super steels as of right now. The thing I notice is all though other stainless steels will get sharp, after you use them the lose that initial scary sharp edge fast, really fast, though they keep their working edges longer.

I am fond of keeping my scary sharp edges longer and then sharpening them when it has been lost. I have found that CPM-154 seems to be a mixture of all that is good. Gets wicked sharp, holds that super keen edge much longer then other stainless steels, and is easy to sharpen back to atom slicing sharpness.
 
Incahiker said:
I just recently purchased a Buck 110 with CPM-154 and I am amazed with the steel. It sharpens up wicked sharp and holds its edge longer then my benchmade 154 cm. I still can't believe how sharp the edge gets on this. Maybe it has something to do with Paul Boss's heat treat, but I am really impressed with this steel. Very nice steel and it doesn't take much to sharpen it up.

Also, on a side note, I picked up a buck 110 420HC after the CPM-154 to use as a beater and I am very impressed with the 420HC has. It gets wicked sharp too, and though it doesn't hold it's edge as long as other stainless steels, it takes nothing to bring it back to an edge that makes other stainless steels cower in fear, other then CPM-154. I actually prefer 420HC's to many other super steels as of right now. The thing I notice is all though other stainless steels will get sharp, after you use them the lose that initial scary sharp edge fast, really fast, though they keep their working edges longer.

I am fond of keeping my scary sharp edges longer and then sharpening them when it has been lost. I have found that CPM-154 seems to be a mixture of all that is good. Gets wicked sharp, holds that super keen edge much longer then other stainless steels, and is easy to sharpen back to atom slicing sharpness.
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The above reflects my experience with these steels exactly, especially the part where many 'super' steels loose their 'scary sharp' edges quite readily.
 
Yes, indeed. I can make all my knives push cut paper easily. But after a day of normal use my supersteels (S30V, D2, 154 CM, ATS-34), while still sharp, do not hold that razor edge as they did when they were initially sharp and do not slice through paper with such ease as if the paper is jumping out of the way of the edge. Matter of fact most of the (stainless) supersteels usually grabs the paper in many places after a day doing chores outside.

The 420HC and CPM 154 hold that super fine edge much longer. The 420HC steel holds a razor edge better then many super steels, though once the razor edge is gone it will not hold the working edge as well as the super steels. But I sharpen my knives at the end of the day (Super strop, maybe a couple of minutes) so it doesn't really matter to me and I prefer the 420HC because in one day doing normal light duties the 420HC holds its super fine edge perfectly. So far I gotta say CPM-154 is a great metal, best I have used so far, stainless wise. I am still surprised at how well the 420HC does, considering I stayed away from it for so long because I thought it was at the bottom of the stainless steels. CPM-154 acts like 420HC but turns everything up a notch and is much more wear resistant.
 
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