CPM 154 - wear toughness?

NDallyn

NDallyn

Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
814
So I figured I'd try some new stainless (new to me at least) and bought a length of 1.5"x5/32 154CM and a length of 2"x1/8 CPM 154. I don't know what everyone else has experienced, but this stuff grinds harder than the S30V I've used. I'm using 60gr Norton ceramic belts. I can usually grind and bevel about 4 1095 1/8"x2 blades and about 2-3 S30V blades with one belt. With the 154, I'm going through a belt per blade. It almost seems like the grit won't cut into the steel properly. I tried a 36gr ceramic belt and the results were almost the same. The more I make stainless blades, the more convinced I am that I should just finish up the forge and start using carbon and tool steels exclusively. As near as I can figure, every time I make a stainless blade, I double my time and triple my material cost - all of this to make a blade that is not noticeably superior in edge-holding and usability. Is it just me or is anyone else starting to really despise stainless?

Nathan
 
Must be just you. Two weeks ago I ground 23 bevels on 154CM,ATS 34, CPM 154, AND RWL blades with one 50 grit cubitron belt and then used same belt to partially taper 5 of those with it. I was told when it seems dull push it harder and it would break down the grit and it was used on a square wheel grinder. I did one 4 inch hunter in about 30 seconds on each side. Mike
 
Interesting you shoudl ask that. It could be me, but early on I DID notice my CPM was extremely tough on bandsaw blades, belts, etc too. This was on the first few batches of CPM154 I did a few months ago....I bought some a couple of weeks ago after I went through the old batch and while cutting through it on the bandsaw I swear I subconciously thought "dang, this stuff is cutting as easy as 440C!". On to the grinder...same thing...440C type wear on the belts. Polished up easier too!

I advised a buddy of mine just a few weeks ago about CPM154...telling him that the days of polishing out missed scratches on his 440C blades were over when he tries CPM154....that stuff is tough stuff to work! It had to be right before going to the next grit belt, as you could not polish out the deeper scratches we sometimes find. However this last batch caused me to wonder if Crucible is still refining their formula or something...as there is a significant difference in the early stuff and the stuff I just bought.

My point being: I wonder if you have some some of the earlier stuff???

I do know for a fact that their first batches were trashy and had inclusions in it...sort of like the crapped up ATS34 we sometimes got. I got some of that and it was not suitable for a mirror polish. Crucible replaced it for me for free and told me "Yep, we didn't have it right on those first few batches". At the Blade the Crucible rep again confirmed that for me, and said they regretted that the bad stuff got on the market.
Regards,

Hank H.
 
The Loveless shop just did a couple up in 154-cpm, and it didn't grind well. I talked to Sr Johnson about it, and he was not having the samer problem. I talked Crucible about it, and was told that it was possible that it may have been miss marked. The problem the Loveless shop was having with it indicated the presence of vanadium in it. Such as the sv-30-6--90. I have a batch here, and will let every one know how it works out! Mike
 
hey guys you got a heat # of the batch of steel you have.
i just sent a bit of cpm154 in for a check and it had the right chem. but acted funny (for me at the saw and in heat)

crucible said that they had not heard any bad on the heat i had and the last batch i made with it seems fine but i will know more after some testing.
BTW crucible being the stand up people they are are making sure all is right
 
I ground a blade of CPM154 after HT ( Paul Bos ) , using the Blaze Orange Belts , there was no problem grinding it and tapering the tang.It worked much smoother after HT than S30v prior to HT.
Now this batch of 154CM I am working on is another story , it grinds and works like crap , I am wondering if this is older stock.
 
I can answer part of the questions about Nathan's steel. The regular 154CM 5/32 may go back as much as 8 months - but that isn't new steel. The 1/8 CPM 154 is fairly recent - within the last couple months - and I've enjoyed grinding the same batch. Having said that, I don't do rusty steels so I can't compare them. ;) (ducking the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune).

Nathan - bring it in and we'll hardness test it. If it's faulty we'll replace it. This stuff is prized for it's ease to work with.

Rob!
 
Bought a chunk of .125 from Rob, and made a knife out of it on my *hitty little 1X48 belt grinder, with no problems at all!
 
Mike Lovett's comments again have me wondering....as the early stuff, well, after polishing you could definately see a grainy structure to it....it never would mirror polish. I am now wondering it I got some S30V or something like that, that was mis-marked! I am not talking about the very first stuff with the inclusions, but the next few batches I got that, while they were clean, were murder on the saw blades & belts. This new stuff behaves great.

Good point Mike. Either they are still refining the recipie, or we may have gotten something we only thought was CPM154CM.

All I know is this new 1/8" stuff grinds great, polished great, and acts like its supposed to.

Take it easy,

Hank
 
Really interesting Nathan, I had the same issues with some 5/32 on my last batch too. TOUGH STUFF !! :eek: The (3/16), is excellent to work with . Honestly, like it is a different material :confused:
 
Rob! said:
Nathan - bring it in and we'll hardness test it. If it's faulty we'll replace it. This stuff is prized for it's ease to work with.

Rob!
Click to expand...

I should have 6 blades ready to HT in a couple weeks. I just filed a swedge onto one of them and the file cut into it so obviously it's not a hardness problem. Maybe the belts are getting clogged with grit or I'm running them too fast? I'll try some AO belts and see if it makes a difference.

Nathan
 
i work mostly with 3/32 but it didnt seem to grind any different for me. it did give me problems sawing like there was banding in it.

crucible analized the steel i sent in and i was told it was to spec. i changed my heat treat a few cooler adn im haveing the batch hardness tested (should stil be 61-62Rc)

the reason that i had to ask about the heat # is i didint get a full sheet last time (they were out of 3/32 full sheet) had like 4 cut offs and that was fine too as i have sheets cut down anyhow
anyhow one was a different heat and i have always heard that you may have to play with a new lot to get the #s back where you want them (wanted to know if the "new " heat i got was new stock or old stock
 
Nathan, you mentioned that you are using Norton ceramic 60 grit belts. I have only completed 5 blades in CPM 154 and I used the same belts with no problem. I had Paul Bos do the temper and he recommended 60-61. I have had no problem with the steel before or after tempering.
 
I use the Norton Ceramic 60 grits too...no problems. My HT recipie:
1900 @ 30 minutes, temper 475/2 hours/3times. Gives me a Rc of 60-61.
 
Okay, so if it's not the steel batch and it's not the belts, it must be something I'm doing wrong. Right now I'm grinding on a Coote with a 3speed setup. The speed I'm using for rough grinding is about 4700 sfpm. Any problems with this?
 
I am also using a Coote with the step pulleys,1725 rpm motor, in the slowest speed. do not remember off hand what the speed is, but I think it is slower than what you are using. Maybe around 4400?
 
Okay, maybe I've just been spoiled by all that O1 and 1095 then? I'll keep fighting with them and let you all know how they turn out.
 
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