CPM 3V edge retention not what I expected.

You did comment that you bought it second hand. Perhaps the previous owner did not undersand how to sharpen 3v or wire edges. I have bought 30 + BRKT knives and all came "ready to use" but eventually had to be sharpened. I learned how to convex sharpen and bought green and black paste and a leaher strop and a hard arkansa stone. I learned how to use fine sand paper and a mouse pad, etc. It took some time to learn. I have diamond sharpeners for my non convexed knives.
Ron Athay
 
Joe Duder said:
When you purchase a knife for $200 you don't mind having to sharpen the burr off before you can fully use it? For my money that thing better be ready to go right out of the box. I understand it will need to be sharpened. I don't mind sharpening my knives, I love sharpening them. In fact, it relaxes me.
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I see it the same as more expensive bicycles. When you buy an expensive bike, it often doesn't come with pedals because if you're buying a nice bike, the manufacturer assumes you have your own set of pedals and shoes, and can use them. There are a lot of types of pedals so if they sold them with pedals, there would be many who would just take them off and put their own on anyways.

Same with knives. If you're buying expensive knives, you should know how to sharpen them because you know the type of edge you like better than the manufacturer. Maybe some people like toothy low angle edges, maybe some like polished high angle edges who knows. The first thing I do with a user knife is put my own edge on it, because it is often sharper than factory edge, and so I can get a feel for the steel.

Now I don't have any experience with 3V, but it sounds like you are having a bit of trouble with a burnt edge, which BRKT seems to have a lot of. There are countless threads going over their sharpening method at the factory and people sharing their experiences with the same thing. I'd say go through a few sharpenings and see how the 3V acts then. I'd wager it performs much better.
 
Invective

Joe's knife shows all the characteristics of a BR 3V knife with a wireedge!
Getting it off by stropping side to side, until it's completely gone, will make the sharpness last longer.


Regards
Mikael
 
The original owner claimed that he only made a single feather stick with my Aurora, and he never sharpened it. I believe him.

I can admit that I'm a novice to 3V. I am pretty good at sharpening knives though. Properly heat treated and better quality steels anyway. I use the sandpaper and mouse pad method and then take it to the strop. I usually go black then white or green compound. I used white on the 3v because I've heard, that though the white is a much higher grain compound than green and black, it's grains are stronger and more aggressive than the others. This may not be fact, it's just what I've heard. I'm a big boy and am willing to admit that I could possibly hone my skills a little more.

Is sharpening 3V so much more different to sharpen than the other steels that I'm more experienced with? A few more trips into the field as well as sharpening will prove that.

I hope it is my technique. Getting a company to admit that they burned the blade seems easier said than done.
 
Joe Duder said:
Is sharpening 3V so much more different to sharpen than the other steels that I'm more experienced with? A few more trips into the field as well as sharpening will prove that.

I hope it is my technique. Getting a company to admit that they burned the blade seems easier said than done.
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No, it's the same technique, but 3V is a lot tougher than most steels and it takes more time and attention to remove a wire-edge/burr.

There are very few makers that would admit a burned edge, but in Your case it's way too early to assume that this is Your trouble.
You have to go through the stropping procedure in detail and use the knife hard, before any conclusions can be made.


Regards
Mikael
 
"There are very few makers that would admit a burned edge, but in Your case it's way too early to assume that this is Your trouble.
You have to go through the stropping procedure in detail and use the knife hard, before any conclusions can be made."


Regards
Mikael[/QUOTE]

"A few more trips into the field as well as sharpening will answer that."
 
I can feel a burr. Once I have sharpened a blade, I strop it firmly on my sleeve. Then I run my thumb diagonally off the edge -- not along it! -- and if I feel a roughness or stickiness, I know there is a burr to remove.
 
Joe Duder said:
"There are very few makers that would admit a burned edge, but in Your case it's way too early to assume that this is Your trouble.
You have to go through the stropping procedure in detail and use the knife hard, before any conclusions can be made."


Regards
Mikael
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That is best suggestion.
If HT is faulty, or edge is burned, it will quickly come up after harder work. Not with just dullness - you will see damage on larger scale.
 
You say your a good sharpener yet you have never experienced a burr before?
To test for a burr strop on a piece of papet towel. You will feel more drag on one side than the other. Ajd tye burr will grab fibres that become immediately obvious to the naked eye.

If you dont have a burr then obviously the strop is not doing enough. Time to remove some metal and raise a burr for yourself. What do you have for sharpening equipment?
 
I am the original owner, the knife was used for thirty seconds on a twig just to check it out. It was razor sharp when shipped.
I have had similar problems with factory edges just being too fine. Once I sharpened them they hold an edge much longer.

EDIT: If you have the ability to strop the knife back to scary sharp, that is a good thing. I would just use it and touch it up as needed.
You will always have a fresh edge with minimal effort. Don't go taking it to the stones until it stops responding to the strop and really needs it...
 
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I finish my high Vanadium edges with a compound that is courser than most. Try using your black compound to stop and then use. 3V has a very aggressive cutting nature. Also much more difficult to remove the temper from 3V because of the high tempering temp. I doubt that is what you are seeing, but anything is possible. After you strop 8 or 10 times each side make a very light (just barely more than the weight of the knife) cut into a piece of wood. This will help to remove any stubborn burr, and then strop a few more times till you get the edge you want.
 
I find it frequently takes a sharpening or two to get best results from a knife after it leaves the factory. Often the steel along the apex is played out, even if it seems sharp. Hate to say it but a good stout sharpening is likely the best remedy. Also, I was under the impression 3V was easier to sharpen than s30v and some of the other high carbide steels. Should not require any heroics or special abrasives.
 
I don't remember saying I've never experienced a burr before. I admit I wasn't clear on what a burr was. If being good at sharpening knives means knowing and understanding all of the knife worlds lingo, well I guess I'm not that good at sharpening knives.

I could have had a burr. When I received the knife on Friday, I was heading out the door for the weekend. I inspected the blade rather hastily. The first areas I look at on a new blade are usually the tip and the cutting edge. I usually like the tip to be pointy and the edge to be sharp and not be reflecting light in a random sporadic way. The blade did seem a little rough and slightly toothy to my finger grain, but still very sharp. I inspected the blade for light but only with indoor lighting which wasn't ideal. I did strop it, but not in great detail (I was headed out the door). After my trip I came home and hit it with the strop properly. Now the blade is not toothy at all and it is razor sharp. So perhaps I was experiencing a burr.

How about a good burr/wireedge link to help me understand it better. Although I think I'm picking up what you guys are laying down.
 
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Just to make it clear, I am happy with my purchase. Maybe this thread was a little premature.

Thanks for the input guys.

Thanks for the blade FTR-14C.
 
Joe Duder said:
Just looked up wire edge and I don't think a wire edge is what I'm experiencing. A wireedge seems like one could notice it by touch and sight and I can't feel or see one. Unless you heed a microscope to see one, I don't think that's the problem.
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Different ways to spot a wire edge:

  • After sharpening & stropping, and 'testing' fine cutting in paper or shaving, etc., draw the edge 2 or 3 times through a piece of hardwood or fairly firm wood. Cutting cross-grain into the corner of a piece of oak or maple is a good test for this. If the edge is robust, with no wire, you should still see it cutting paper cleanly and perhaps even still shaving afterwards. If there is a wire, you'll see a quick change or degradation in shaving/fine-cutting performance, most likely, as the wire gets folded or stripped away from the edge.

  • A wire that's folded even slightly to one side or another will scrape extra material or compound from a strop, and deposit it on the side opposite to where it's folded. Make a stropping pass or two on the strop, then examine the 'up' side of the blade for this accumulated material.

  • With a trailing (stropping) stroke, scrape the edge over a fingernail from each side of the blade, and look for material that might be accumulating behind a folded burr/wire at the edge. If a burr/wire is folded down into the nail, some material will scrape off and collect behind it. Use a magnifier and bright light, if necessary to see it all clearly.

Burrs and wires won't always be identifiable by direct sight or feel alone. When they're smaller than that, they often get overlooked (literally), but can still impact cutting performance. I routinely use the methods above to make sure my edges are in good shape. The cutting performance will always give clues as to what's there, or not there. In particular, the first test above (drawing the edge through hardwood, then testing shaving or clean cutting through fine paper, like a phonebook page) has been very reliable for me.


David
 
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Yup, tri-tip is one of the (many) perks of living in Cali, regardless of what people say about it. Oh, no restrictions on (open carry) fixed blades in my county either! ;)

3v is something that I have yet to try. My understanding is that it's value is limited in short, and short-ish blades. For something less than 5" I'd choose a different option if available.

I know that doesn't help you though. :(
 
Thanks for the info Obsessed.

Strigamort, Tri Tip can be one of the best cuts for the money ($2.99 per lb for select grade). People that don't like it, either cooked it wrong or sliced it with the grain instead of against. Chuck eye steaks aka "poor mans ribeye" aren't too bad either.
 
While I don't normally recommend it, you can easily remove the wire edge via Murray Carter's method. Get a 2x4 or piece of wood, lay the edge on it, and using zero pressure, pull the knife into the wood twice. If it's dull afterwards, you had a wire edge. This technique will rip it off, and you can then sharpen normally.

FWIW, I have lots of knives in 3V, and with diamond hones and ceramics, I don't think it's hard to sharpen at all, it takes a great edge, and holds it for a very long time. It's a steel that can take a lot of abuse and pounding. One of the few that works well for both large and small knives.
 
Ive seen factory production videos of BRKT , it looks like they have low regard for heat when grinding (shudder) is it a zero grind? The angle might be too steep to support the carbides. It sounds crazy but you could have a stressed (hopefully not burned) edge, The best solution it to run the edge into a fine stone and re apex the blade on a stone ;trust me- it works and takes little effort to reapex. It makes it about as dull as it would be from cutting up a box. stropping pulls the bent over teeth that the edge has (as well as abrading) and can stress the edge (think about it like bending wire back and forward- it eventually snaps)
 
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