cpm 3v edge retention

S

stalag2

Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
79
Hello there,

Im planning to buy a tuff in the near future but im wondering how will 3v perform doing regular edc tasks (ill prbably never chop with it).
From what i see in the chemistry it is not very wear resistant, how well will it do when compared to s30v in terms of edge retention ?
Would i be gimped with such a steel for random edc ranging from cardboard cutting to food prep ?


Thanx
 
Personally, I've never felt "gimped" with AUS8 or anything along those lines. I doubt 3V will disappoint you. Then again, if I was spending loads on an EDC folder(don't actaully know the cost of the tuff) I'd go for something more stainless and more wear resistant, since there are options out there.
 
Well, the non stainless thing isnt going to bother me much, in fact i was already thinking about a nice forced patina, im more worried about edge rolls and overall edge retention.
If 3v is on par with aus8 and even vg10 for non choppy chores ill prabably pass my way, thats sad because i really dig big bellied tanky folders...
 
http://www.knifemakerforums.com/showthread.php?t=672

http://www.windsorsteel.com/grades/CPM-3V.htm

"CPM-3V material is designed to provide maximum resistance to breakage and chipping in a highly wear-resistance material. CPM-3V material offers impact toughness greater than A-2, D-2, Cru-Wear or CPM-M4 material, approaching the levels of S-7 and other shock resistance material, while providing excellent wear resistance, high hardness and thermal stability for coatings. CPM-3V is intended to be used at HRC 58/60; CPM-3V can replace high alloy tool steels in wear applications where chronic tool breakage and chipping problems are encountered."
 
stalag2 said:
Well, the non stainless thing isnt going to bother me much, in fact i was already thinking about a nice forced patina, im more worried about edge rolls and overall edge retention.
If 3v is on par with aus8 and even vg10 for non choppy chores ill prabably pass my way, thats sad because i really dig big bellied tanky folders...
Click to expand...

I was just saying that I've never felt undergunned with a "regular" steel. Not that 3V is anything like AUS8. I've never seen 3V used in a folder so I can't say, really... I would assume that it would perform very nicely if it has a decent hardness.
 
I think Spyderco knows more about knife steels than 99% of the forum members. I have great faith in their ability to produce a fine piece of cutlery and would not worry my little self about the type of steel used in any of their knives. If you have some sharpening ability, and I assume you do since your are a forum member, you should have no problem with this knife. There is obviously a reason Spyderco call this model "TUFF".

Here is a link from one of my favorite knife guru's regarding knife blades, of which steel is a major part but just one element in the manufacture of a great blade. His name is Joe Talmadge, a custom bladesmith going way back.

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml
 
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I've heard it stacks up fairly well, just a hair behind S30V, in terms of edge retention. Haven't had the chance to play with it myself, so that's purely secondhand information.
 
Looks like i was dead wrong about this steel, i initially thought that a such tough steel had to be much softer and rather poor in carbides.
Thanks a lot for the inputs, im gonna order a tuff once i get my southfork, thats for sure.
 
CPM 3v is good stuff stalag2. Everything I have read about its performance is very positive.
 
CPM 3V was the super steel of the moment a few years back. much depends on the geometry etc but generally it is very surprisingly hard and shock resistant at the same time, and keeps a great edge. i find it tough to sharpen, but better sharpeners than i am don't necessarily feel the same way. But it really does not like to be wet and corrodes in a very bad way if you're not careful. I have a few things in 3V including a beautiful custom from Greg Lightfoot that I took with me to Antarctica ( you can keep it from corroding of you are really careful) and I have rarely had to sharpen it.
 
I put my Tuff to work on fire making duties while camping and it surprised me with its edge retention.

I haven't done any controlled tests but a quick non scientific assessment for me would put it at less than my M390 and as good or better than S30V or VG10. It really seemed to resist rolling or chipping even though I wasn't being gentle with the edge. I have it at a 20 degree polished edge and mostly attacked cardboard and wood with it. I ended up using it the most because it's my new favorite but it seemed to stay just as sharp. It also took a very very sharp edge from stropping on my WEPS.

I do seem to get very good edge retention from my VG 10 convex grind camp knife too though, better than what I'm used to for VG10. But that's likely the grind helping that one.

After this week of camping, I think I'm wanting a heavy duty camp knife in 3V and a convex grind now. I'm not going to baton with the Tuff, but I did do some light chop/hack stuff (folder appropriate) and the edge held perfect.

I would be interested in seeing where 3V actually ranks in something like Ankersons testing. Although I'm getting the impression it really stands out with really hard impact duties like batoning through knots. Stuff that would chip or roll other steels and not necessarily wear them down. I'm also not sure where Spyderco took the hardness to. From what I read on Phil Wilson's site, 3V can really change from 58-60 RC.

No rust yet either with normal use and care. I really need to get some Tuff Glide for my Tuff though since its quickly becoming my favorite carry knife.
 
I think it was around the edge retention of S30V from the charts, if I remember correctly.
 
Im really starting to drool about this steel ;]
Do you think it would take a patina despite being almost semi stainless ?
 
stalag2 said:
Im really starting to drool about this steel ;]
Do you think it would take a patina despite being almost semi stainless ?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised.
D2 does after a while, and it's almost stainless.:)
 
Bohler has their catra numbers chart that lists 3V (PM 7.5-1.3-2.75 CrMoV) rating on it. The numbers put it slightly ahead of D2 at 61 rc, but below steels such as S30V, S35VN, Elmax, M4, and M390. How big these differences are is beyond my knowledge. CATRA may not be the end all of tests, but it is one aspect to look at. From this data, it looks like it exhibits a good balance of above average edge retention and the toughness it is said to have. Apparently, if you want to go a step further in the wear resistance direction, CPM-4V is available, which still retains above average toughness. It just doesn't have the god like 3V toughness numbers according to the Crucible sheets. You have to give something up to get another it seems.

catra-chart.jpg
 
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