CPM D2 or Laminated VG10?

I would go with D2 no doubt about it. Iv made myself a fixed blade knife out of D2 recently. I have hammered it through many things (with an actual hammer, not a bit of wood) including splitting wood with it, cutting wet fence pailings against the grain..hammered it through tin cans lengthways and cut a coin in half with it (put coin on sheet of aluminium and hammered it with hammer using aluminium as a chopping board), and its fine... Its @ 58hrc (i had previously said it was 57hrc but I hardness tested it the other day and it was 58).
Would love to see someone hammer a VG-10 blade through a coin with aluminium chopping board :)
I have a thread here with images of said knife being hammered through stuff somewhere.
 
Richardlittle said:
Thank goodness this is finally going where I needed it to go.

For years I have been using 1095 in most all of my knives but have recently said I am going to invest in some very nice knives.

I decided to go get a Fallkniven NL1 and a A1. A big 10 inch chopper and a good mid size knife. May even get a smaller NL.

I was trying to decide if I wanted to go ahead and make the purchase for my life long knives or wait until I find something in CPM D2 that may be as good or better.

I have no problem with paying a one time fee of almost $1000 if the knives will last a life time like the Fallknioven will but if CPM D2 is going to be better I will wait until I fine some. I am not buying both. One purchse and one purchese only.

People need to watch the video on youtube of a guy trying to destroy the Fallkniven A1. It will blow your mind and make you wonder if there is anything better, even CPM D2.
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If you're willing to spend so much money, why not get a full custom out of a steel much more appropriate for the usage you're interested in? CPM 3V and S7 will be orders of magnitude far more tough and impact resistant than VG10 or CPM D2 ever will be.
 
Richardlittle said:
Thank goodness this is finally going where I needed it to go.

For years I have been using 1095 in most all of my knives but have recently said I am going to invest in some very nice knives.

I decided to go get a Fallkniven NL1 and a A1. A big 10 inch chopper and a good mid size knife. May even get a smaller NL.

I was trying to decide if I wanted to go ahead and make the purchase for my life long knives or wait until I find something in CPM D2 that may be as good or better.

I have no problem with paying a one time fee of almost $1000 if the knives will last a life time like the Fallknioven will but if CPM D2 is going to be better I will wait until I fine some. I am not buying both. One purchse and one purchese only.

People need to watch the video on youtube of a guy trying to destroy the Fallkniven A1. It will blow your mind and make you wonder if there is anything better, even CPM D2.
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Watch the video's trying to destroy Busse, and Scrapyard knives. Noss does them.




As to the original question, Falkniven tends to make a very nice fixed blade using laminated steel.

I feel that limiting your self to Falkniven might be taking out super options you have not considered for the prices.


Let me start by saying, the Falkniven NL1 greatly appeals to my eye. It is just plain good looking. I don't think you will have any performance of use issues if you treat it decent. It has a full convex grind. Meaning to sharpen it properly, you should learn about stropping. It is extremely easy compared to stone sharpening in my eye.

The design does not have a full tang (exposed tang), and that is fine, as long as you are aware of it.

It is a good "mid sized" chopper. I say that, because it is not the biggest or best chopper in that class. It should make a fine all around user. It will be lighter than some in it's class, and not chop quite as hard.

Stainless, so low maintenance as far as the steel goes. The handle may or may not work for you. If you find it does not fit your hand, it should not be too tough to sell.

Don't overlook custom makers on this site! That price puts you right in the custom wheel house.

There are tons more steel choices than those listed.

Also, if you want production with insane toughness, look at Busse. Infi (their proprietary steel) is basically stainless, and insanely tough.
 
Have you thought about Rosta Frei steel options?

Most custom makers won't touch the stuff, as it is very demanding to work with, but I think a 6" Smatchet in forged Rosta Frei would be damn near unbeatable.
 
Jastab said:
I'm making 11 fixed blades out of cpm d2 now. Haven't used it before, so this will be my test. Seems like good stuff from what I read.
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Please let me know how did that go as I have 11" bowie myself out of cpm D2 :)
 
SENGVIN said:
Please let me know how did that go as I have 11" bowie myself out of cpm D2 :)
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PIC's, please!

This sound like a savage combination!
Have You used it yet and will You upload pic's via photobucket?


Regards
Mikael
 
The first one is (D2) RC 58-61 12" 3/4 blade 5/16 or more:-) thick
HdUXjaa.jpg


The second one is is (CPM D2) RC 58-61 10" 375 blade 1/4 thick
wrMc8uT.jpg

pRyZx25.jpg


The first one I'm not planing on using. The second one I was going to use it but took me 5 days sweating to make it so I'm not sure if i will or not use it :D
 
Also Gil made 20 Rambo III knives for Rambo IV(D2 instead of 440C)) that where supposed to be use hard destroying floor. The scene was never shoot because Sly change his mind. All those knives are almost 12" so I don't think he would chose D2 if was afraid it will shatter on him...
 
I'd like to see laminated D2. All of the edge retention and hardness of D2 combined with the soft toughness and stain resistance of 420J or something.

Am I alone in this?
 
SENGVIN said:
The first one is (D2) RC 58-61 12" 3/4 blade 5/16 or more:-) thick


The second one is is (CPM D2) RC 58-61 10" 375 blade 1/4 thick

The first one I'm not planing on using. The second one I was going to use it but took me 5 days sweating to make it so I'm not sure if i will or not use it :D
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Wow!
I mean WOW!!!

It's totally cool that You made them Yourself and with Mr Hibben as teacher!
You can be proud of Your work, but I think You could use No. 2 at least with some care.

Thanks for showing!

Regards
Mikael
 
Kwon Kwang said:
I'd like to see laminated D2. All of the edge retention and hardness of D2 combined with the soft toughness and stain resistance of 420J or something.

Am I alone in this?
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Technical advances are always interesting, but at what cost?

There were discussions like this with Peter at Fällkniven.
He had a project called "the Modern Bowie".
The idea was to do a laminated powdersteel series like the NL series, using Takefu Super Gold as a core steel.

The project ended when the Yen currency went through the roof in 2009.
Instead there are the CoS knives, Cobalt steel with 420j2 as outer laminate.
The Volcano looks nice, but as I already have invested in the NL's, I will stay with them.

The NL1 & NL2 has enough geometry to withstand chopping and general hard use, as long as they aren't abused.
Out of all my chopping knives, the NL's has proven to live up to very high standards!

I believe the Cold Steel San Mai III models to also be very good, but I have yet to try them.

Two days ago I cleared the backyard from vegetation and compared the NL1, the Fiddleback Forge 12" machete and the Bark River Golok.
The Fiddleback is very thick in the edge and needs more profiling.
The Golok has been reprofiled by the BR Crew and this is my most competent chopper!
The NL1 has the same geometry as the Golok, but this is the original factory geometry.:thumbup:

wb2p.jpg


l3rc.jpg


byd1.jpg


hjwm.jpg


i8on.jpg




The NL1 is the most allround large knife of the 3 and with the custom Stag handle it's the finest knife I own!
All 3 knives were still sharp when I was done, but remember the NL1 is stainless!
I say the VG-10 / 420j2 laminate lives up to very high standards in the world of cutlery.
So bottom line is, why not explore what's already availible before going into laminated powdersteels?


Regards
Mikael
 
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SENGVIN said:
Any of those knives D2?
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No, none are D2 or CPM D2.
That's why a user report of Your big CPM D2 bowie would have added to the thread IMO.
I saw the date it was finished and I certainly can understand if You choose not to use it.

It takes time to evaluate a new knife and the above Fiddleback is only going through the initial break-in procedure.
The Cross Sectional Edge Geometrie's of the above knives, are of more importance than the steeltype!
Let me explain my thinking:

All 3 knives chops well and hold their edges, but there are differences.

1. The Fiddleback Forge Machete is 1075 at 3mm spinethicknesss and I assume it has a hardness around hrc 54-56.
The edge has a low convex sabergrind, that is very thick.
To see the edgegeometry, I use a knife block with a 0,125" x 0,45" tablesaw slot in it.

6fte.jpg


2. The Bark River Golok after reprofiling from a too thin edge into an edge that has held up for heavy duty chopping.
The steel is 1095 at hrc 58 and spine is 5,5 mm.

0vj3.jpg


3. The stainless Fällkniven NL1 Tor in laminated VG-10 / 420j2 at hrc 59.
Spine is 7 mm.
It has the same geometry as the reprofiled Golok, but it was like this from the factory and I have only honed the edge.

vvi9.jpg


These 3 examples show geometrys that cope with heavy duty chopping without edgefailure.
They have differrences in design,steel and heat-treatment, but the thing they have in common are thick edges.

I mean that Geometry and Heat-treatment are more important parameters to considder, than the Steelchoice!
The choice of Steel is indeed important, but Geometry and Heat-Treatment comes before the Steeltype!

The harder edges of the Golok and Tor, allows them to be thinner than the Fiddleback Machete and this makes them better also for use as knives.
The Machete will be tougher and easier to sharpen in the field.


Regards
Mikael
 
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