Cpm d2

Sal Glesser said:
Zat you Scott?

Will Crucible continue to make and Niagra carry CPM-D2?

sal
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Sal, if CPM D2 does show back up would you PLEASE use it in more knives? The Manix 2 would be a great candidate. The performance I get from my CPM D2 Millie which tested out at 62 RC is just great, with a noticeable improvement in edge retention over S30V and sharp, burr free edges. I do live in a low humidity environment where even CPM M4 isn't too prone to rust unless you neglect it, so for me the corrosion resistance is just fine with CPM D2. The sharpness and crispness of the edges I get from CPM D2 compared to S30V is another big improvement as well. It would be nice to see Spyderco put more of this fine steel out there with the same wonderful heat treat that was used on the Millies (and presumably Paras) that were released in CPM D2. The toughness at 62 RC is just fine, as I haven't had any chipping of note and I have used my Millie pretty extensively and hard. Let us hope CPM D2 becomes available again and Spyderco can put it to good use.

Mike
 
Zat is me Sal.
If Niagara orders it Crucible Industries will make it. I will talk to Bob Shabala @ NSM and we will decide what to do here. CPMD2 is one of my favorites and my CPMD2 Military is one of my most cherished possessions. Great knife - great steel !!
 
tsdevanna said:
Zat is me Sal.
If Niagara orders it Crucible Industries will make it. I will talk to Bob Shabala @ NSM and we will decide what to do here. CPMD2 is one of my favorites and my CPMD2 Military is one of my most cherished possessions. Great knife - great steel !!
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I was wondering if you could explain to me what you find the differences to be between D2 and CPM D2, I know the composition to be the same, and how the CPM process reduces grain size, but I have also been told there is a big difference in the toughness, and also in the quality of edge that the steel will take.

Any insight personal or professional, appreciated.
 
Thanx Scott. If Crucibles makes it, we will use it. Should we order first?

Hi Mike,

Crucible makes some pretty nice blade steels. We're always on the lookout for the cool passionate stuff. It's not always profitable, but it's always fun.

sal
 
I only did this a time or two but in my limited experience(in the kitchen) CPM D2 performed quite well, but it was aided by good blade geometry!
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Sal Glesser said:
Thanx Scott. If Crucibles makes it, we will use it. Should we order first?

Hi Mike,

Crucible makes some pretty nice blade steels. We're always on the lookout for the cool passionate stuff. It's not always profitable, but it's always fun.

sal
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Hi Sal. I always appreciate how Spyderco likes to try new steels and puts out knives that the ELU's ask for even if they aren't profitable. I really like my CPM D2 Millie, CPM S90V Manix 2, and espescially the CPM M4 Mule, which is a real work horse for me. I can't wait to get the CPM M4 Bradley and CPM M4 Millie RIL. I just love that steel. CPM D2 however has more mainstream appeal I think than CPM M4 though because of the corrosion resistance issue. I guess people just don't like wiping down their blades anymore. CPM D2 is quite a performer in my experience, better than S30V by a fair margin, however if CPM S35VN gets out there it might be fun to see how it compares to CPM D2. I guess we'll just have to see when a production blade in that steel comes out. I'm sure Spyderco will be getting one out pretty quick, as us steel junkies generally get our fix from Spyderco before most other production companies use new, cutting edge steels. And we definately appreciate that as Spyderco ELU's.

Mike
 
Sal Glesser said:
Thanx Scott. If Crucibles makes it, we will use it. Should we order first?

Hi Mike,

Crucible makes some pretty nice blade steels. We're always on the lookout for the cool passionate stuff. It's not always profitable, but it's always fun.

sal
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I am a hard-bitten cynic in my sixth decade. You and your company are too cool. You restore my faith in what people are capable of. Thank you. :cool:
 
elimcbee said:
How hard are you guys running the CPMD2?
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Scott steared us to Rc62 as a good working hardness.

Mike,

We managed to snag the last of what CPM-35VN that Scott had in stock before the Crucible "change".

We've already made them into a Mule Team.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Scott steared us to Rc62 as a good working hardness.

Mike,

We managed to snag the last of what CPM-35VN that Scott had in stock before the Crucible "change".

We've already made them into a Mule Team.

sal
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Sal, I'll defeinately be getting the Mule and getting Tom Krein to put a handle on it and sheath it like he did for my M4 and ZDP 189 Mules. It will be put through a lot of work to see how this new steel stacks up. Any hardness info to release yet?

I think you were steered very nicely in going to 62 RC with CPM D2. In my hard working Millie it performs great, and your heat treaters are pretty good as mine tested out right at 62 RC when put on a rockwell tester. I have noticed most all of my Spydercos of a like steel come out within a half point if not identical in hardness when tested. Your heat treaters are definately on the ball with keeping consistent performance from knife to knife. I do need to get my ZDP Mule tested to see just how hard it is since my early (hard) version of it reportedly is even harder than the folders in ZDP that Spyderco puts out.

Mike
 
Bear_Blade said:
Is there much difference between CPM D2 and the origional D2?
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Bear, CPm D2 is made with the CPM process so has a much finer structure. Convential D2 has large carbides as large as 10-20 microns. CPM D2 would be on the order of 2-4 microns. Toughness is improved so the steel can be used at a higher hardness for better wear resistance. Overall this is an improvement. Hopefully more will be available but at about the same time frame CPM D2 was introduced CPM 154 was also made available. Same applies--154CM chemistry but CPM structure for better toughness. These two are similar in performance (CPM D2 and CPM 154) and the 154 is also stainless as a bonus. I hear-- and Scott can confirm that CPM 154 is alive and well and some will be available early next year. If CPM D2 goes by the wayside then we will still have CPM 154-- one of the very best available... Phil
 
CPM 154 is another one I have been wanting to try for a long time and haven't been able to. I have heard nothing but glowing reports of it, and I'd love to compare it to my 154CM folder that tested at 61 RC for a good comparison. I don't think 154CM can go much harder than 61 RC without being pretty chippy, so I'm guessing CPM 154 can go up another point or two without getting chippy and also be able to take a finer edge. Well, maybe it will take a slightly finer edge when polished (my observations of D2 and CPM D2, both at 62 RC) but hold it a good bit better than the non CPM version (something I unfortunately didn't have a chance to test when comparing the custom D2 knife to the production CPM D2 Spyderco). When I compared the custom in D2 at 62 RC to the Spyderco Military in rope slicing with a poly cutting board (that will cause much more wear than a nice soft wood backing) the edge retention was almost identical, not surprising now that I know the Spyderco in CPM D2 was the same hardness. The Spyderco took a bit finer edge when polished out, though the D2 took a hair whittling edge as well. I'm guessing the finer grains would have shown the CPM steel to have better high sharpness (polished) edge retention, and most likely less chipping under harder use. I couldn't do an apples to apples test on the chipping though as the custom knife was much thinner than the Spyderco. It would have been nice to test identical knives, but not being a knifemaker makes that pretty tough. One thing I can say is that CPM D2 at 62 RC makes a great harder use 4" blade for the Spyderco Military, much better than S30V for me. A sprint run of CPM154 at 62 RC would be a must buy to test out in the Millie though, and I have a feeling that S35VN may be making it's way into a Millie sprint run at some time in the future. For some reason (availability?) it seems there hasn't been much in the way of CPM154 production blades, and the few I have seen seem to be very pricy. With Phil Wilson's praise of it I wish we could see more of it in production blades for reasonable prices.

Phil, have you tried any CPM S35VN yet? You sure have tried lots of the CPM steels, especially the real high wear resistance stuff like S90V, S110V, S125V, and 10V at their limits of hardness. I know you have really praised CPM154 a lot, it seems S35VN would be a nice new steel to compare to it.

Mike
 
Thanks Phil, that does clear things up for me. I know a supplier who I can get a fair amount from, and was trying to decide if it was a good thing to add to my supply.

Mike, thanks for your observations on the tests you've done. I have used CPM154 a lot in folders, hunters, and kitchen knives, with fantastic results. Edge retention is awsome, even when field dressing game. I really like this steel. My personal hunter has seen two moose, a bear and two deer, with only one light touch-up. And other customers are reporting similar experiences.

I look forward to useing CPM D2, now that I know a little more about it.
 
Mike, I have not worked with any of the S35VN yet. I jumped on CPM S110V and now M4 so pretty much have my hands full. I am trying to focus on CPM10V, CPM S110V, CPM M4, CPMS30V and CPM 154 for the range of knives and applications I am doing. I could go on but the original subject was CPM D2.

Bear, CPM D2 might work out great for what you make and your heat treat process. I suggest getting some and trying it out, compare it to CPM 154.. So many great steels to choose from.. Phil
 
OT How do I keep up to date on the Mule Team offerings? I signed up in the original Mule Team thread but I never seem to get any updates. Do I always have to go to the original Mule Team thread to check the last page every few days, or is there any easier way to keep up with what happens?
 
Although CPM D2 has the same chemistry as D2 (except maybe 0.1% nitrogen added from the CPM process), the heat treated product is different from wrought D2. Wrought D2 typically has only 7-8% dissolved chromium whereas the CPM version has much more, I would guess more than 10%. So the CPM version would be more corrosion resistant. CPM D2 would have different carbides, including smaller, more wear resistant ones and fewer of the larger chromium carbides than D2. If you heat treat it the same way as wrought D2, I'm not sure you would end up with the same hardness either. Sometimes the CPM version of a particular steel ends up being a bit harder with the same heat treat.

Wasn't the reason why CPM D2 originally getting discontinued was because S30V is a better steel? Though seeing as to how CPM D2 is being heat treated to 62 rc while S30V typically to 59 rc, I'm not surprised that people are reporting the CPM D2 to be the better performer. My own experiments with S30V suggest much higher austenizing temperatures than what the datasheets recommend (for higher hardness) being more optimal for the kinds of knives that S30V is typically used in. In this case, S30V should in theory be more corrosion resistant and more wear resistant than CPM D2, with comparable toughness. In theory anyway.
 
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My favorite chef knife is a Yoshikane gyuto made with SK5 tool steel which is similar to D2. It makes a fabulous kitchen knife blade material.
 
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