CPM154 vs S30V

Incahiker said:
I have a question... why don't more production knives have CPM-154 as an option? The major player used to be Buck.. they had a couple in CPM-154, but now its only the 110. Kershaw has one also, but that is it.

Does CPM-154 cost significantly more then S30V?? I would love to have more options with CPM-154 without having to dish out a ton of money for a custom. And.... even if you did want a custom they are hard to get.
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Cant give you and answer to your questions but can give you some further reading. Hope it helps.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=778117&highlight=production+knives+with+cpm+154
 
cultivateitnow said:
Funny. I seen a post the other day where a guy was complaining because he bought a knife that was supposed to be made of ATS 34 and the blade was marked CPM154 when he got it. He ask why the company was down grading. He was clueless that they were the same. There are a lot of people tha bite on the marketing ploys between the different companies, for sure.
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Don't blame on the customer how clueless they were, it was the company who falsely advertised the material had to be blamed. It doesn't matter it was actually an upgrade or downgrade, sellers were EXPECTED to provide whatever advertised!
 
Josh K said:
When I said similar I was referring to the comparison to CPM154 @ 60 RC.
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S30V at 58 RC performs like AUS-8A from my testing, just tested it at 58 RC today.

There is a huge difference between 58 and 60 RC.

That's not going to touch CPM-154 at 60 RC, not even close.
 
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Incahiker said:
LOL... that was my thread, I was the O.P :D. I figured I would ask it here too, lol, since this thread is getting a lot of views :rolleyes:
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:eek: :foot: :D sorry. Did not notice that.
Ankerson said:
S30V at 58 RC performs like AUS-8A from my testing, just tested it at 58 RC today.

There is a huge difference between 58 and 60 RC.
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Who heat treated the S30V and who heat treated the AUS 8 A if I might ask? The heat treating process greatly affects any steel alloy. Oil quenched, air cooled, double tempered and then what grinds on the respective knives?
 
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marthinus said:
double tap.
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Spyderco S30V

Cold Steel AUS-8A

VG-10 and SG-2 are in the same group.

Like I stated before S30V has to be at 60 RC min to perform like it should.

The data on S30V at 60 RC is also from Spyderco, same model knife on both 58 and 60 RC.

My data and testing method will be released in a few weeks.
 
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Jim I guess RC depends on each persons taste and what they expect from the knife.

According to Crucible (http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\dsS30Vv1 2010.pdf) the aim in hardness (therefore the optimum RC to get the properties out of the alloy) is from 58-61RC.

So far in my experiments in the garage (very non scientific and mostly screwing around) 59 RC has given me a good balance for a larger blade to take a pounding without chipping as S30V did at 61RC. However for a smaller blade such as a pocket knife a higher RC can be had as one do not experience instances in EDC where you go at it with a baton. That is all part of the design. As in this case we are talking mostly about folders I presume?
 
marthinus said:
Jim I guess RC depends on each persons taste and what they expect from the knife.

According to Crucible (http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\dsS30Vv1 2010.pdf) the aim in hardness (therefore the optimum RC to get the properties out of the alloy) is from 58-61RC.

So far in my experiments in the garage (very non scientific and mostly screwing around) 59 RC has given me a good balance for a larger blade to take a pounding without chipping as S30V did at 61RC. However for a smaller blade such as a pocket knife a higher RC can be had as one do not experience instances in EDC where you go at it with a baton. That is all part of the design. As in this case we are talking mostly about folders I presume?
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Yes I am talking about folders here, FB would be differnt, but if the tempering is right S30V will hold up just fine even at 60 - 61 RC.

But S30V is tricky to HT and Tempered correctly from what I am told and it has to be right or it will get chippy.
 
Ankerson said:
Yes I am talking about folders here, FB would be differnt, but if the tempering is right S30V will hold up just fine even at 60 - 61 RC.

But S30V is tricky to HT and Tempered correctly from what I am told and it has to be right or it will get chippy.
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Myself and another local maker are still starting out and I have to agree, the HT involved with these steels have to be top notch. It is not as forgiving as other steels such as 12c27 or 1095 when you make a slight mistake. Guess that also contributes to why these steels cost so much in the end knife.
 
marthinus said:
Myself and another local maker are still starting out and I have to agree, the HT involved with these steels have to be top notch. It is not as forgiving as other steels such as 12c27 or 1095 when you make a slight mistake. Guess that also contributes to why these steels cost so much in the end knife.
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Yeah that is the reason why, it's just has to be HTed and Tempered right and good HTers aren't cheap so there is the added cost.

S30V is excellent, but it has to be 60 RC or better to reach it's performance.

Edge retention falls off so fast once you get below 60 RC it was scary.

The difference between 58 and 60 is so big and noticable it's shocking.

It's like comparing CPM-154 and VG-10
 
The difference between 58 and 60 is so big and noticable it's shocking.
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Jim, are you talking about edge stability, or wear resistance in general?

( I mean, what passes for edge stability in these high carbide fraction stainless steels. :) )

To me, that's why S30V does better for my purposes at RC 61 than at RC 58. You pretty much will only see RC 61 on certain customs.

The Vanadium carbides are still there, same hardness, same size at RC 58-59, but the edge seems to do better for my uses at the higher hardness.

Not trying to say it magically becomes 52100, but it is noticeable to me.
 
The Mastiff said:
Jim, are you talking about edge stability, or wear resistance in general?

( I mean, what passes for edge stability in these high carbide fraction stainless steels. :) )

To me, that's why S30V does better for my purposes at RC 61 than at RC 58. You pretty much will only see RC 61 on certain customs.

The Vanadium carbides are still there, same hardness, same size at RC 58-59, but the edge seems to do better for my uses at the higher hardness.

Not trying to say it magically becomes 52100, but it is noticeable to me.
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Talking about edge retention here.

Shoot me a PM and I will detail my method so you will understand better. :)
 
So at 60 you have noticed no chipping on the S30V? I noticed that I liked my Reeve folder at 57-58 RC better then my Buck Mayo at 59. I can get Chris's S30V very sharp, very fast, and it holds the edge wonderfully. Just as good as the rest of the S30Vs I have. But I guess I don't have one in 60-61 so I am sure that yours holds it's edge better as you say.
 
Incahiker said:
So at 60 you have noticed no chipping on the S30V? I noticed that I liked my Reeve folder at 57-58 RC better then my Buck Mayo at 59. I can get Chris's S30V very sharp, very fast, and it holds the edge wonderfully. Just as good as the rest of the S30Vs I have. But I guess I don't have one in 60-61 so I am sure that yours holds it's edge better as you say.
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No chipping at all at 60 RC, the edge holds up extremely well on the 2 at 60 RC that I have worked with. :)

That a big plus and thumbs up for Spyderco on their HT

Yes it will sharpen faster at lower hardness.
 
Ankerson said:
S30V at 58 RC performs like AUS-8A from my testing, just tested it at 58 RC today.

There is a huge difference between 58 and 60 RC.

That's not going to touch CPM-154 at 60 RC, not even close.
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I submit that the CATRA tests are more useful then cutting rope.
 
Josh K said:
I submit that the CATRA tests are more useful then cutting rope.
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That's another method of testing. :thumbup:

The current method that I am using is accurate enough that I can notice even small differences in hardness using the same steel.

My data and method will be released in a few weeks at the latest. :thumbup:

I will have some data here maybe next week on the differences between Polished edges and not polished and the difference in 30 and 40 degrees inclusive. This will be using the same knife, a custom FB in M390 at 62 RC that is optimized for cutting and edge retention.
 
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Ankerson said:
That's another method of testing. :thumbup:

The current method that I am using is accurate enough that I can notice even small differences in hardness using the same steel.

My data and method will be released in a few weeks at the latest. :thumbup:

I will have some data here maybe next week on the differences between Polished edges and not polished and the difference in 30 and 40 degrees inclusive. This will be using the same knife, a custom FB in M390 at 62 RC.
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Have you tested your testing method so to speak? If I give you five blanks of 01 all heat treated differently but otherwise exactly alike can you rank them correctly?
 
Josh K said:
Have you tested your testing method so to speak? If I give you five blanks of 01 all heat treated differently but otherwise exactly alike can you rank them correctly?
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Yes I could tell the differece.

I am corresponding and sharing data with another right now as a joint effort to make sure of the results, you will find out who it is once the data is released.

This method doesn't rank steels 1,2,3,4 etc, it puts them in categories by edge retention.
 
Ankerson said:
I am corresponding and sharing data with another right now as a joint effort to make sure of the results, you will find out who it is once the data is released.

This method doesn't rank steels 1,2,3,4 etc, it puts them in categories by edge retention.
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I'm saying can you correctly determine relative edge retention given a blind test. However I may not be up to date on your testing procedure. Are you still testing how long a mirror edge lasts?
 
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