Cpm154

My CPM154 blades are Bucks - and they all still shave arm hairs, so no time on the Sharpmaker for them. My Buck S30V knives still raise arm hairs, too - despite some considerable use on the 419 Folding Kalinga Pro and new 347 Vantage Pro - as EDCs. The most use has been on a Spyderco S30V, which literally cut anything and everything - including appliance cardboard boxes. It has been 'touched up' on the Sharpmaker several times, although extended work on the white files flats has resulted in less apparent sharpness - no arm hair raising - and subsequent strokes on the file's edges were needed to gain some arm hair raising. The edge had a slight rounded appearance, but no bent or chipped edge was noted. As I said, the Buck S30V knives keep cutting.

Now... the Kershaw Blur S30V appears uneven - and cuts paper similar to a true Damascus micro-sawtooth edge. Shaving hasn't been possible - even with extended sharpening on the Sharpmaker... but I haven't given up. My Gerber S30V Freeman appears to be nearly as soft and easy to sharpen well as the Buck 420HC - which is almost a pleasure to re-edge. The worst, thus far, has been the 'other' unmentioned 154 variant - 154CM in my Benchmade 425 Gravitator. I haven't given up, but it rivals their D2 and 440C new butter knives I got in the past. Oddly, the BM 610, 615, 630, & 635 - all S30V - all came fairly sharp and have lasted quite well. Benchmades seem to be the biggest crapshoot as to delivered edge sharpness, while Bucks, Kershaws, and Spyderco set the bar high on consistently sharp edges as delivered. The <$30 WallyWorld Buck 110 is a hard act to follow.

You know, as easy as Buck's 420HC resharpens on the Sharpmaker - and as long as it holds an edge - it really isn't a poor choice for a knife. Sure, S30V or CPM154 may hold an edge longer, but you could re-edge a bunch of 420HC to razors in the time it takes to get an 'acceptable' edge on a 'higher grade' metal. Something to consider. Of course, not much in the way of bragging rights for 420HC vs the latest 'ACME 101XYZ' metal.

Stainz

PS My sharpest-ever delivered knife? A Kershaw JYDII in Ti & SG-2! A pocket microtome!!
 
My UK Pen Knife has been great and I have had no chipping or rolling of any kind and so far my Strider PT holds a edge great but I haven't used it enough to see how tough the blade is. I would buy more Spydercos with S30V but I hate backlocks and only carry sub 3" blades. Other knives I have gotten in S30V either chip roll or both.
 
SteelSnob said:
My UK Pen Knife has been great and I have had no chipping or rolling of any kind and so far my Strider PT holds a edge great but I haven't used it enough to see how tough the blade is. I would buy more Spydercos with S30V but I hate backlocks and only carry sub 3" blades. Other knives I have gotten in S30V either chip roll or both.
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Beleive me it's the heat treat. While the S30V does chip at thinner angles, it's not worse than CPM154, and a lot better than 154CM.
 
cotdt said:
Beleive me it's the heat treat. While the S30V does chip at thinner angles, it's not worse than CPM154, and a lot better than 154CM.
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Please provide facts, figures and photos on this. I'd like to see it.
Thanks.
 
I know it's the heat treat. I knew that from gate. It seems like S30V is hard to get right for a lot of companies. It's either too soft and rolls or too hard and chips or both where as CPM154 can be hardened to 62 and be fine with no chipping. And I think CPM154 at 62 will give you better edge retention than S30V at 58-59rc(Which is what most companies HT S30V to) and without the chipping. I don't consider a knife to have high tougness and chip under moderate use.
 
2brothers said:
Please provide facts, figures and photos on this. I'd like to see it.
Thanks.
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And what would that prove?

I can send you an S30V knife with what I beleive had a good heat treat, you can put a thin edge on it, and test it for yourself.

Personal anecdotes aside, S30V has smaller carbide volume than CPM154 (14.5% versus 17%) while being made on the same process, and has wear-resistant vanadium carbides. The smaller carbide volume is good for toughness and chip resistance, so long as the heat treat is good.
 
cotdt said:
Beleive me it's the heat treat. While the S30V does chip at thinner angles, it's not worse than CPM154, and a lot better than 154CM.
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cotdt said:
And what would that prove?

I can send you an S30V knife with what I beleive had a good heat treat, you can put a thin edge on it, and test it for yourself.

Personal anecdotes aside, S30V has smaller carbide volume than CPM154 (14.5% versus 17%) while being made on the same process, and has wear-resistant vanadium carbides. The smaller carbide volume is good for toughness and chip resistance, so long as the heat treat is good.
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So, what you're saying is you're just making a guess based on one knife you have that you believe had a good heat treat?
Am I reading that correctly?
 
2brothers said:
So, what you're saying is you're just making a guess based on one knife you have that you believe had a good heat treat?
Am I reading that correctly?
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Yes, I believe that steel should be judged based on the best samples. I have used chippy S30V too but my opinion of the steel improved after using good S30V from custom knifemaker. It is unfair to judge S30V based on an average-quality heat treat.

Who knows what is causing the chipping/rolling issues. It could be decarburization at the very edge during heat treat, which would be solved by grinding away 0.5mm. Or retained austenite converting to untempered martensite over time, leading to brittleness. With a precise temp control during heat treat, stainless foil protection, cryo as part of the quench, the right selection of temperature to temper at, these are no longer issues.

Crucible did test CPM154. I could not gain access to the datasheets, but from what I heard, it tested to be significantly tougher than 154CM but still slightly behind S30V in both toughness and wear resistance. However, it is easier to mirror polish. I've mirror polished S30V before so I don't care. It is also almost as expensive as S30V, so why not just buy S30V?
 
Because buying S30V is a crapshoot in a lot of cases,that's why not. You've had chippy S30V so you know what I mean. Judging a steel by only the best examples isn't presenting a whole or accurate picture of the performance of the steel.
 
SteelSnob said:
Because buying S30V is a crapshoot in a lot of cases,that's why not. You've had chippy S30V so you know what I mean. Judging a steel by only the best examples isn't presenting a whole or accurate picture of the performance of the steel.
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I find your argument interesting, but not very persuasive or compelling. In fact, it reads a little confused. Frankly I'd imagine your concerns about extra thin edges and random killer cardboard is of minor concern to most users. Keep it coming though, it's a fun read.
 
shunsui said:
I find your argument interesting, but not very persuasive or compelling. In fact, it reads a little confused. Frankly I'd imagine your concerns about extra thin edges and random killer cardboard is of minor concern to most users. Keep it coming though, it's a fun read.
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Ask me if I give a damn about your opinion
 
I apologize. I misread your post and I'm on a iPhone. I thought you were talking trash. I just reread it and realised you weren't. I think thin edges are important to a lot of afis and if it's chipping on cardboard something is very wrong IMO. It's not for no reason that there is a large movement towards CPM154 in the custom knife world. If it was just because it's easier to grind and polish there's cheaper steels that are just as easy. It's a great steel IMO.
 
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