Cracked Handle Scale, What to do?

Ian Weller

Ian Weller

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Aug 16, 2017
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201
Hello everyone, I recently put some Osage orange handle scales on a harpoon point 5160 knife I forged a few weeks ago. When hammering the large pin in, my handle scale cracked, it seems like a significant crack to me, running from the second pin, through the largest pin to the top of the scale. I'm just wondering what others do in this situation? Do you scrap the scale and start from scratch or just let it go and hope the crack doesn't get worse?

Screenshot_20201101_130413_Photos.jpg
 
Redo
Only fix it and keep it if you're not happy with the knife and you want to make it a personal user or test knife
 
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Hengelo_77 said:
Redo
Only fix it and keep it if you're not happy with the knife and you want to make it a personal user or test knife
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What is the best way to remove scales thay have been epoxied on already? I'm assuming heat and acetone maybe?
 
Yeah, that should work. Heat and brisk whacks with a small hammer, heat and and a chisel to pry it off, etc.
I've heard of folks dunking handles in boiling water for a bit, and that makes sense to me.
 
Depending on the epoxy used, you can boil it and it softens, not all epoxies soften, the 10minute style ones usually lose they adherence at boiling temps. Good Luck

Pablo
 
Thank you everyone for the advice. Its a problem I've had before with larger pins mostly. I was going to let the crack be but I think I'm going to remove scales and start over. I should be able to save my pins no?
 
I would count the pins as a loss. Dry fit everything before you apply epoxy and make sure the pins will fit. I little larger hole won't hurt and you can peen the pins lightly to fill in any gap in the hole then file flush.
 
Isn’t peening the pins to fill the holes ultimately the same thing as a tight pin from the start? If one uses a corby or loveless bolt, you wouldn’t peen those?
 
The proper way to used peened pins is to taper the hole with a reamer. You don't need a lot of taper, just enough to allow the top of the pin to expand against the hole sides. Even a chamfer bit will work (but a reamer is better).

A heat gun and a hammer removes scales quickly.
 
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Barry Clodfelter said:
I would count the pins as a loss. Dry fit everything before you apply epoxy and make sure the pins will fit. I little larger hole won't hurt and you can peen the pins lightly to fill in any gap in the hole then file flush.
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For peening the brass pins do I leave then a tad longer than then the outside of the scales and hit with ball peen?
 
Ian Weller said:
For peening the brass pins do I leave then a tad longer than then the outside of the scales and hit with ball peen?
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yes (though you can use a flat hammer also - I do). then look closely after every few taps to observe them filling out the tapered/reamed out hole. stop when they just fill the gaps in the hole .... otherwise you will press on the wood around the hole and be right back where you are now.... !!!!
 
I can't remember who it was, but IIRC, one of the big time old guys used to leave the pins 1/16" proud and give them a little squish with a cheap 1 ton arbor press. He said it didn't take much to expand the pins.

That said, I agree with Horsewright.
When I use pins and not Corby bolts, I just drill the holes for a smooth slip fit and don't peen. I use good epoxy and grind a reservoir in the tang (and usually some through holes), then make sure epoxy is down every pin hole. As long as a tiny bit of epoxy gets down the hole, and the tang is properly bonder to the scales, the pins are mainly to prevent any shearing force.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I can't remember who it was, but IIRC, one of the big time old guys used to leave the pins 1/16" proud and give them a little squish with a cheap 1 ton arbor press. He said it didn't take much to expand the pins.

That said, I agree with Horsewright.
When I use pins and not Corby bolts, I just drill the holes for a smooth slip fit and don't peen. I use good epoxy and grind a reservoir in the tang (and usually some through holes), then make sure epoxy is down every pin hole. As long as a tiny bit of epoxy gets down the hole, and the tang is properly bonder to the scales, the pins are mainly to prevent any shearing force.
Click to expand...

Stacy ... i am extremely confused. IIRC, there has been a LOT of discussion around peening pins to create a mechanical hindrance to separation of the scales from tang. Horsewright, (man .. you are omnipotent...my god...., BUT...) you have posted videos of peening pins on bolsters. Am I reading too fast and missing something.... or have I always missed something, and are you both now saying don’t peen pins on scales?
 
I'm no professional, but I've pinned and epoxied a fair few sets of scales.

I never peen them. If you use mosaic pins you can't peen them (it would wreck the mosaic). So I prefer a method that works on any kind of pin. This is what I do... I drill everything from 1/16" copper pins to 1/4" mosaic and tube stock to the right drill size. Not oversized, no taper. Just the stock size fractional drill.

Then, I use a length of the pin stock itself as my "reamer". I chuck that length of pin stock in a drill and use some 80-grit sandpaper to rough up the OD of the pin and the use that to chase the drilled holes. It get a perfect match to the pin size. I've never had this fail. Do each pin with a 80 grit rough OD. Match ream them to each hole. This is basically the dry fitting step.

When installing, lube the pins wiht a bit of the epoxy and they tap right into place (you should not need to hammer them in!). No additional reaming necessary, and there is zero gap to fill.

Again - no professional, but this works for me and I've done maybe 200 pins this way.

Conversely the one time I ever tried to peen a pin - cracked the scale. It was a nice (expensive) piece of ironwood if I recall.

EDIT: One of the critiques of this sub-forum is that people give advice without a shred of evidence that they have any idea what they are talking about and really should not be offering advice (the "put up or shut up" critique). So, photos of successful pin installs with the above method:
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
The proper way to used peened pins is to taper the hole with a reamer. You don't need a lot of taper, just enough to allow the top of the pin to expand against the hole sides. Even a chamfer bit will work (but a reamer is better).

A heat gun and a hammer removes scales quickly.
Click to expand...

How does tapering the top part of the hole work with flat slab scales that are shaped on the knife? You will grind down below the tapered and peened portion pretty quickly, after about a sixteenth or an eight deep, right, thus eliminating the tapered section and the benefit of it?
 
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