Creating my first knife (help!)

[Lemunzz]

Hey guys!

I'm just a chap whos really keen on creating my on knives, i've been lurking the forums for a while now but one thing that is daunting is all the different threads, like i've ALWAYS wanted to create a simple damasteel knife but seeing as i've never created one i'm going to stick with an old 3mm saw mill blade that i found lying around the yard. I believe i tempered it, i made my own little fire with heat bricks and sat it in there so it was at a nice workable stage but then i'm sort of lost from there, i draw out the shape of my blade + extra for the tang. Once i've done this i'm not sure if i have to heat treat, quench or any of these things. Don't get me wrong the stuff i've learnt from these threads is awesome but i just want a basic step by step guide on what to do with some high carbon steel. I've thought of using old files to create some blades as well. Seeing as no one i know can help me with this i've got to rely on the internet.

TL;DR
- Tools that i can use to start with
- good steel that i should begin with (cost effective, nice outcome etc)
- Process of development (Tempering, heat treating, quenching, grinding etc)
- Good practices or ways to learn

And is there certain kind of steels good to begin with or is it all similar?

Thanks in advance guys!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Start by filling out your profile. When we know where you are and a bit about you we can help more.

Here is an old post I put up about getting started and doing HT:

1080 is eutectoid steel - It has the simplest HT. You need to heat it evenly ( avoid overheating the edge) to 1500F and quench as soon as the blade is at that temperature. No need to soak ( hold at austenitization temp) for any length of time. Quench in fast oil, like parks #50,. Water or brine will work, but blades can crack or warp much more likely. Temper twice at 450F. This will give you a hard and tough blade.

Read Kevin Cashen's post at the top of the page in the stickies "Working with three steels". The entire process is explained.

My advise would be to avoid blends of old motor oil and ATF. It will work for many steels, but for shallow hardening steels, it may be less than optimal. Buying a gallon or two of proper quench oil will be a good investment. Canola oil will work fine in the beginning.
1080,1084,1095, W1, W2 all need fast quench oil.
1070 and below often need water or brine to quench them.
O-1, L-6, 5160, S7, and other high alloy steels need a medium speed oil quench.
A-2. D-2,and stainless steels are air quenched, often using quench plates to avoid warping.

You will hear and read a lot of conflicting info about HT procedures. One advantage of 1080/1084 is that most all of those procedures will work for it. The one critical step is the quench. Assuming the steel is about the right temperature, the quench is where the austenite ( what forms above non-magnetic) converts into martensite ( what we want for a knife blade). Cooled too fast...it cracks or warps, cooled too slow...the blade is too soft or only partially hardened. Most blade steels between 1080 and W2 ( from .80% to 1.00% carbon) have only about one second to lower the steel temperature from 1500F to below 900F. That is what the words "fast", "medium", and "slow" mean in quench oil ratings.

As to using a magnet to determine the blade temperature....it is a good system. At about 1300F the steel changes from one structure to another. It looks the same, but the new structure is not magnetic. Checking the steel by using a magnet ( the cheap telescopic pick-up magnets work well) as the blade heats up will tell you when this change occurs. At this point it is not ready to quench ( even though many will tell you to quench then). It has to heat up about 150-200 degrees more. You observe the color at non-magnetic, and heat it up a shade or two brighter. That should put you in the ball park. The things you want to do are keep the blade moving and turning, so the thicker spine and the thinner edge are as near the same temperature as possible. Avoid overheating the edge...that the part you are going to use in cutting.

Once the blade is at the austenitization temperature, quench in a smooth and even plunge into a gallon or more of the proper quenchant. Quench straight in, point first. Only move the blade up and down, or in a cutting motion from spine to edge. Avoid moving it from side to side or it may warp. After about 7-10 seconds, pull the blade out and check it for warps. If it has some warp or twist, immediately straighten them with gloved hands or on a 2X6 with a wooden mallet. You have until the blade cools to 400F to do any straightening. At 400F the steel converts into martensite, and will become very hard and very brittle. Do not attempt to straighten any more. Allow to cool to room temperature, wash off the oil, and as soon as possible , place in the oven at 400-450F to temper for one to two hours. Take out and let cool to room temp and put back in the oven for a second temper cycle. Now your blade is hard and tough.

There is a lot more to HT than this, but that is a basic starter procedure. Again, reading Kevin's posts will provide a lot more detail.

 

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The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V34

The answer to a young student is different than a retired machinist
With members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or neighbour.
Join our community;fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.

Look at the threads at the top of the page.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Wheeler-s-Steel-*-Stuck-in-the-metal-with-you
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/956343-Damascus-integral-tag-along

Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, available and inexpensive.

Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Look at hundreds of photos

Start with a drawing and post it, we love photos.
French curves, graph paper and an eraser are vital tools.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bHFtVNs9tWA/TEj5Quiq1ZI/AAAAAAAAAI0/rn2EoHoXpVc/s1600/The+French+Curve.jpg

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1147466-How?p=13120810#post13120810

Then a cardboard cutout template & with handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.

How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save

The $50 knife Shop-not recommended
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench BS
Back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spikes, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
Proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo is inexpensive and quench in Canola.

Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders plans are now free on the web.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, tooling and machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

Videos for rent,read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait months
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Nick Wheeler- Hand sanding 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I4x4QLpfnk

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files, railroad spikes and other unknown junkyard steels.
For the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheap & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html

1095 is good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 CPM-s35vn Elmax, and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 due to minimum charges.


Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect a "tink" and a cracked blade

Don't quench in a plastic pail of oil

Glue – Epoxy
Use new slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't over clamp it A “glue starved joint” is weak when all the adhesive is squeezed out.

Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld-leaves a grey line


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.
spheroid annealed steel is butter soft to file.

Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527

Examples of filing jigs
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ#t=330

Grinders
A professional three or four wheel 2x72 is worth it
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.metalwebnews.com/manuals/knife-grinder.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder-buy plans
http://usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy.html


VFD Variable Speed made simple

Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska steel pulleys are good plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with finer control.

NEMA 1 VFD’s are designed to keep your fingers out and the metallic dust intrusion will smoke it.


Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you some use1700 RPM at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $100 for shipping to Canada I save $ on used motors

The 1.5 HP combination is the most common
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.


VFD
KBAC-27D
http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_AC_Drives_Inverters/AC_Drives_NEMA_4X.html
http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbda_manual.pdf
Use the Distributor Locator to find a local source, online sources may be cheaper.

There are cheaper units, but the only VFD I have found that runs a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC-27D

It is NEMA 4, sealed from metal dust

Good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings.
If you buy a bargain vfd, you're stuck with a chinglish manual and ridiculous programming.

I like that I can buy it in person from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.

If you can't breathe, nothing else matters.

Wearing a mask and glasses on the top of your head doesn't count.

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for acetone and glue fumes.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes get fitted in person

Shave, also test the every time.

For beards
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Search

This Google page searches BF well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504

A shop visit
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1166688-How-to-get-a-shop-invite

V34 March 23, 2014 NW WIP