Critique my pattern please

M

Maelstrom78

Joined
Sep 21, 2013
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1,574
Ready to cut some hide.

How is this for a plan?

5ahua9.jpg


This style was my inspiration although I'll add a vertical belt loop instead of the horizontal ones.
33ups9u.png



I cut it out and I have a feeling it will be too tight. Maybe I should add .25 to the edges of the blade portion? I can always sand some off I guess.
Thanks!
 
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Planning to wear in the back? If so should work well. For front cross draw wear I've found that a practical limitation on knife length is about 7" and if I remeber right your knife is a little longer? So for side wear or in the back should work out well. Not a big fan of dual stitching, its kinda why. You didn't mention if you were gonna do that or not. And if you decide too thats cool, just not my deal. Design wise I do have a couple of concerns. I wonder if there would be too much retention caused by the heel of your blade. Retention is great obviously but you do want to be able to get the knife out too. I think you are gonna want more room where the sheath comes up into the heel of the blade. Less of an acute corner. Then once that blade makes that jump over the welt it looks like the throat of the sheath isn't gonna be wide enough to get the blade out. Even in the two dimensions of your drawing it looks tight. Remember that your actual handle is three dimensional so you're gonna need more space and leather to get around it and the blade too. Getting the pattern right for me is often the hardest part. Don't be afraid of working on your pattern and then trying a prototype, knowing its proably not gonna come out right the first time. I'm working on a new beltless fixed blade sheath for the wife. I'll be cutting out my third prototype today. First two didn't work right. It happens. But thats how I at least get it right.
 
I very much appreciate the feedback. The throat of the sheath isn't going to get stitched all the way up through the handle. Like in the "inspiration" pic it's kind of open.

Single stitching is the plan for this one. Side or back vertical wear.

Maybe I'll add a little more room all of the way around and trim down if I need too. I thinkI made it too tight as I'm worried about retention. This is for my Dad so I don't don't want him to get stabbed due to my shoddy work!

3/8 " welt thickness was my plan as well so please let me know if I'm wrong on that one?

I'm sure some leather will go to the learning curve :)
 
Duh on the throat, I saw that and then didn't see it when I was typing just looking at your drawing. Got it. only 2 cups of coffee at that time, not enough obviously. Yeah 3/8s should be about right maybe a tad wider there at the throat. When you glue in your welt go ahead and place the knife in there and see how it works. I've trimmed too acute welts in the past with judicious xacto knife work. Slice under the welt through the glue first and then down to trim and make any adjustments to the welt. Perhaps not for the heavy handed or faint of heart but doable. With your knife shape and that throat your gonna have to get er just right or you'll be slicing the welt a lot. This gonna be a fun project. You might consider Paul's trick of using a little JB Weld in that are of the welt. I've done the same with superglue. JB Weld probably tougher. Gonna be a fun project.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I've got some JB Weld and I remember the thread about using it to toughen up the welt. I like the trick about modifying the welt after gluing if one needs to.

Well might as well jump in with both feet! I might end up making this one a few times which is ok. Gotta start somewhere.
 
Heck yeah! If you're gonna be a bear, ya might as well be a grizzly. Feel free with any questions and keep us updated with progress.
 
Horsewright said:
Not a big fan of dual stitching, its kinda why.
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I'm really glad someone came out and said that out loud :)
I thought I might have been alone in my opinion .


Maelstrom78 , what type or design of belt loop are you thinking of if your going to wear it vertical ?
I find myself spending more time thinking of the loop design these days than the main body of the sheath .
I kind of start at the loop and design from there as opposed to the other way around .
A knife spends the majority of its life being carried on your belt and how it rides and the functionality of the loop is becoming more and more important to me .



Ken
 
I was thinking something like this.
2ng99n8.jpg


But I would skive down the top part where it connects to the sheath body. The one on that picture looks a little bulky.
 
Haha I was just going to tell Dave that I didn't know he was not a huge fan of double stitching. I'm not either. Some customers see it as a mark of quality, to me it just adds unnecessary work (tacks on a lot of time hand stitching) and bulk with no real (imho) benefit.

I've been a fan of the open throat (that just sounds wrong) look since the first one I saw. I think your pattern looks great, although I'd err on the side of caution and cut it a tiny bit bigger, which you'll likely do anyway. Please post your results.
 
Maelstrom78 said:
I was thinking something like this.
2ng99n8.jpg


But I would skive down the top part where it connects to the sheath body. The one on that picture looks a little bulky.
Click to expand...


Gotcha .

I've made loops sort of like that on a few Folder sheaths and they have worked well .
But it would worry me that the stitching internally could be cut and damaged as a fixed blade knife is inserted and extracted from the sheath if its not covered with some kind of lining .
I would be interested to hear from some of the others here that are fixed blade guys ( I have no experience with fixed blade sheaths at all ) if they think that might be an issue .

Ken
 
Just really hasn't been a problem Ken. At least for me and the sheaths I make. Maybe if the fit was based on friction and there was a sharp bolster edge or something. My fit and retention is based on the welt so simply has not been a problem and I've made a couple now as you know. Strig on a sheath I see no practical reason for double stitching except for decoration. If a welt were really wide and a guy could say he was sewing down both sides of the welt but then I asks myself why is the welt so wide. But then again I think it comes down to personal taste more than anything. Strength wise I can gurantee you that it adds nothing. Then you come back to Ken's signature quote. I kinda translated it to cowboyese earlier today and told Nichole "she was busy rounding off them corners on those wheels", (she was overthinking a project). I got flipped off. Ken's dude says it safer.
 
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One thing I hate about tapatalk is that you can't see sigs. :(

Decoration, yup. If done nicely it can show artistic attention. Jason does it so well, the holes are always (from what I've seen) perfect and that can be a little challenging to nail. I doubt most customers can really tell what went into it, but it's definitely not something I do regularly, or without a small additional charge.

Ken, I'm sure most do, but I learned from Jason (Tal) to groove the flesh inside the sheath to lessen abrasion. I alternate between a folder and (my first) fixed blade sheath, both have seen a lot of use and neither have discernable wear on the interior stitching. The folder sheath is for a knife with peel-ply g10, about as abrasive as handle material gets.

Maelstrom, I'm sure you already know, but just in case, always skive on the flesh and not the skin. Again, I'm sure you're aware, but the skin has the majority of strength. You can skive very thin and retain strength that way.
 
Thanks Omega, I'm not offended. I'll be happy if people assume I don't know anything! That way hopefully I can avoid some easy mistakes.
 
What should I do with the bottom of this welt?
24qog8m.jpg


I have it skivved down. Is it OK as is or should I cut the "inside" part?


Also i have leather caught in the tiny hole in my stitch groover. How the heck do you get that out?

Aaaaand the nice side of the shoulder is great and almost looks polished. I plan to do some modest tooling but when I mist water on it the water beads up. Did they wax the front?

Thanks !
 
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Maelstrom78 said:
What should I do with the bottom of this welt?
24qog8m.jpg


I have it skivved down. Is it OK as is or should I cut the "inside" part?


Also i have leather caught in the tiny hole in my stitch groover. How the heck do you get that out?

Aaaaand the nice side of the shoulder is great and almost looks polished. I plan to do some modest tooling but when I mist water on it the water beads up. Did they wax the front?

Thanks !
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by the inside?

When I get a bit of leather in the groover I firmly groove a scrap and it should push out the offending bit. This has never failed me, but I have had to do it fairly hard for a stubborn bit. My Japanese groover has had far less problems with this than my Chinese groover. Sharper blade, better steel and all that. Outside of that I'd try to push it out with a stiff wire. I have heard of people trying to burn it out, but there's no way I'd do that as it will destroy the heat treat (assuming it's a decent quality tool with a hardened blade).

It's possible they waxed the skin side. Water beads on my black hide, but it wet forms nicely after properly wetting the flesh side.
 
I was wondering about the bottom of the welt. Is it ok that it hooks back up or should I trim it?

2crsvbm.jpg


I'll try the wire thing as well for the groover thanks.

So if I understand you correctly, if I wet the flesh side of the leather and let it "level" (Learned that from Sheathmaker's DVD) I should be able to stamp the front side of the lether?

Thanks!
 
That welt should be fine. I do a little hook like that in some of my pancakes depending on the shape of the blade. Gives a place for the blade to "nestle". Yes on the wetting of the leather. I'd try a little scrap piece first before I started in on the sheath. I tend to dunk the whole project getting both sides wet at the same time. This is usually a quick in and out if I'm tooling. Then once the color starts returning to normal you are good to go. I use Pro Carv in the water and this stuff makes a big difference in water absorption, drying time, eveness of of wetting etc.
 
Great thanks. Where do you buy that pro carve? My google fu is failing me.

Also, for the belt loop I used a average 1.5" width belt and with some paper tried to figure out the length of the leather strap to cut out for the belt loop. I got 5.5". Does that sound nuts or is that about right? It seemed to work when I tried it with paper.
 
Here's where I tend to get it. Some other folks have it too: http://www.sheridanleather.com/Procarv_p/pro-carv.htm That belt loop seems a little long to me. I do a similar belt loop on my Horizontal sheaths and also my Gordo sheaths. I cut at 4.5" and then end up trimming a little off of each to finsh with the bottom edge of the sheath. They are made for 1.5" belts too.
 
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