Critique my pending stone purchase

M

McFlurrey06

Joined
Aug 3, 2010
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37
Hello all, I have decided to learn how to freehand sharpen on stones, and have come up with a set of stones that I feel will start me off well, and be fitting for when I actually learn how to do it well.

DMT Dia-sharp coarse
Spyderco 302M (medium)
Spyderco 302F (Fine)
DMT Dia-sharp extra fine
Spyderco 302UF (Ultra Fine)
KnifePlus Strop Block

I have them listed in the order I precieve them being used. My goal is to first learn how to set my bevel and stay consistent, work up a burr and apex the edge, and finally end up with a mirror or near mirror polish, with a workable edge.

If you have any suggestions on other stones or products please let me know.
 
A Norton combination coarse/fine India stone is hard to beat. Then you can add other stones later should you think they're needed. DM
 
minimalist said:
Why not all DMT stones and then the ultra fine Spyderco Stone? Have you seen the 306uf?
Click to expand...

So the DMt Dia-Sharp coarse, fine, and extra fine? Then the spyderco UF?? I kind of thought I would need the medium step as well.

I have not seen the 306UF in person, but I have looked at them online.
 
I think you should start with a Norton India combination stone. It will set you back a whopping.. ok get ready.. hold onto your wallet.. $20!

Once you master this then you can move on to some other stones.

BTW, if your technique is solid, that $20 stone will get you an amazing smooth shaving edge.
 
OK, I will look into it. The thing I like about the DMT is the fact that the feet on them won't let them slip.

EDIT: The Norton India seems really promising actually, just place it on a towl to prevent slipping on the table? or does someone else have a different idea?
 
Personally, I think using them in that order jumps around between abrasive material too much. Once worn in, dmt c to ef isn't that big of a jump, especially with as quick cutting as diamond is. Then, if you want really polished, do all 3 spyderco's. Otherwise just the 306uf will clean the ef scratch pattern enough for a user. Diamonds leave deep scratches for the grit rating, ceramics do not. I would throw in an xc personally, but I'm impatient.
 
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McFlurrey06 said:
OK, I will look into it. The thing I like about the DMT is the fact that the feet on them won't let them slip.

EDIT: The Norton India seems really promising actually, just place it on a towl to prevent slipping on the table? or does someone else have a different idea?
Click to expand...

A simple base can be made with a piece of 2x4. On 4 corners put some of those rubber dots used to keep your cabinet doors from slamming hard, sand the other side with rough sandpaper or crosshatch it with a saw and you're done. If things get messy a piece of paper towel under the stone is all you need. The stone really shouldn't need to be blocked in place if used with light pressure. Or you can just place it on a towel...
 
My experience with the spyderco ceramics is that they clog up incredibly quickly. They sharpen really well and are nice to use but sometimes I need to wash them 2-3 times when sharpening just one knife or they'll lose their bite; and they're incredibly difficult to wash. I find diamond and water stones much more convenient to use, albeit a little messier.
 
I would.grab a couple lower grit dmt or atoma stones and then make the jump to waterstones. Your progression seems good in theory but to be honest diamonds and ceramics abrade so drastically differejtly that i fell that you will be jumping around between abrasives too much.

So i would go something like this

DMT XC
DMT C
DMT M
Chosera 400
Chosera 1000
Chosera 3000
Chosera 5000
Chosera 10,000

Dont forget sharpies and a good quality loupe.

When switching from diamonds to waterstones i always drop down a grit rating or two. Diamonds are so aggresive that they leave a toothier edge than a waterstone of the same grit rating. So you go lower than the diamong grit when you go to waterstones to help remove the diamond scratch pattern. Hope this helps!
 
McFlurrey06 said:
OK, I will look into it. The thing I like about the DMT is the fact that the feet on them won't let them slip.

EDIT: The Norton India seems really promising actually, just place it on a towl to prevent slipping on the table? or does someone else have a different idea?
Click to expand...

You can just place the stone on a rag or damp paper towel. Its free :)
 
SPNKr said:
My experience with the spyderco ceramics is that they clog up incredibly quickly. They sharpen really well and are nice to use but sometimes I need to wash them 2-3 times when sharpening just one knife or they'll lose their bite; and they're incredibly difficult to wash. I find diamond and water stones much more convenient to use, albeit a little messier.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will think about that as well. Sounds like the Norton India Combo stone, with soap and water should be ok.

Sadden said:
I would.grab a couple lower grit dmt or atoma stones and then make the jump to waterstones. Your progression seems good in theory but to be honest diamonds and ceramics abrade so drastically differejtly that i fell that you will be jumping around between abrasives too much.

So i would go something like this

DMT XC
DMT C
DMT M
Chosera 400
Chosera 1000
Chosera 3000
Chosera 5000
Chosera 10,000

Dont forget sharpies and a good quality loupe.

When switching from diamonds to waterstones i always drop down a grit rating or two. Diamonds are so aggresive that they leave a toothier edge than a waterstone of the same grit rating. So you go lower than the diamong grit when you go to waterstones to help remove the diamond scratch pattern. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

This sounds a bit expensive for starting out. I understand the "Pay to play" mantra, but that seems a bet excessive.

What would come after the Norton Combo Stone, and before a strop. For a nice refined edge?

What about just going with the set of Spyderco stones? 302M,302F, 302UF?
 
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Spyderco ceramic stones & rods clean up easily with Bar Keeper's Friend, Scotchbrite pad and water. I would consider the XX coarse 8" DMT as it not only reprofiles extremely well but can also double as a lapping plate for flatening waterstones, which may be in your future as you continue your journey into sharpening.
 
McFlurrey06 said:
Ok, I will think about that as well. Sounds like the Norton India Combo stone, with soap and water should be ok.



This sounds a bit expensive for starting out. I understand the "Pay to play" mantra, but that seems a bet excessive.

What would come after the Norton Combo Stone, and before a strop. For a nice refined edge?

What about just going with the set of Spyderco stones? 302M,302F, 302UF?
Click to expand...

TBH, you don't need the Spyderco stones. For a working edge, I will use the Norton Combo Stone and then strop with black and then green compound on a 2-sided strop. If you really feel you need to you could use a Soft Arkansas stone after the combo stone (probably set you back another whopping $20).

Start simple and cheap. Don't drop a large amount of coin until you have tried things out. When you have the experience and muscle memory then you will know what you need.

Also, there is a BIG difference between practical sharpening and "hobbyist" sharpening. Sharpening is a hobby and pursuit in its own right. It is fun to create a perfect mirror edge but in use it disappears quickly and in many ways I prefer it less in the field than a toothier coarse edge. I used a buck knife sharpened on a medium arkansas stone and then stropped on my belt for years. I processed dozens of deer and did lots of woodwork with this simple setup very satisfactorily.
 
I just ordered a Norton India Combo stone from Knifecenter (as well as 2 Moras, and the Syderco bug 3 set), and a strop block from knivesplus. We will see how this goes for practicing.
 
Sadden said:
I would.grab a couple lower grit dmt or atoma stones and then make the jump to waterstones. Your progression seems good in theory but to be honest diamonds and ceramics abrade so drastically differejtly that i fell that you will be jumping around between abrasives too much.

So i would go something like this

DMT XC
DMT C
DMT M
Chosera 400
Chosera 1000
Chosera 3000
Chosera 5000
Chosera 10,000

Dont forget sharpies and a good quality loupe.

When switching from diamonds to waterstones i always drop down a grit rating or two. Diamonds are so aggresive that they leave a toothier edge than a waterstone of the same grit rating. So you go lower than the diamong grit when you go to waterstones to help remove the diamond scratch pattern. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

This has as much overlap as the OP's stone progression, plus DMT doesn't have a medium stone. In the choseras you can go from the DMT XXC straight to the 400 without issue and the 3k in your above progression would be a excessive step. Truthfully going to 5k or 10k with the chosera stones is kinda pointless, even chosera recommends stopping at 3k.

McFlurrey06,

The Norton stone is a good choice for a starting out though a bit coarse to sharpen a mora IMO. I would recommend a small set of waterstones in the future as your skill progresses, the Arashiyama stones would be a good set to look at.

In the mean time here is a video to help you along

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VPCvd5hUVQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUfsHYm19KjjnUlpG8WVMZOA
 
I like to have some overlap. And im not as familiar with DMT's products as I use Atomas.

So I went and looked up some stuff to make some corrections to my above post.

I would go
DMT XC
DMT C
DMT F
Chosera 400
Chosera 1000
Chosera 3000
Chosera 5000
Kangaroo Strop (3x8 on glass)
1micron CBN

I still recommend some overlap. It makes a huge difference when you go to remove the diamond scratch pattern , and when you start to chase that mirror polish. With synthetic stones and diamond stones you get what you pay for. You said you wanted a near mirror polish and to be able to reset bevels. This will do an excellent job of that. Now if your working on a budget then I need to know what it is before I can recommend anything.... I just recommended some mid grade stuff to get ya started down the hill.
 
mid grade stuff ?

180 $ of diamond stones and 450$ of choceras .... for someone saying he wants to try freehand ? wow.

i'm a pro cook, 10 years of sharpening high end japanese knives 2/4 times a week approx, what would be a high end setup for me considering i use steels ranging from shirogami 1 to cpm10v ? i have a couple months of salary to spend ... :D

more seriously OP what steel do you use and want to sharpen ? the recomendations will change between 420 and s90v ....

the nortons india or crystolons are good starters, but for a polished edge you'll need more, way more actually, and what more depend on your steels
 
Shapton Pro stones from 120-30,000 grit
Atoma Plates from 140-1200 Grit
Diamond Films
Polycrystalline Spray 60,000-640,000 grit
Nanocloth Strops on glass
Japanese Naturals , these can go all the way to 10,000$ or 15,000$ for a single stone. But price is not indicative of quality in Jnats , only availability.

Unicorn Horn Steel ;)

Seriously , how many people have more than that invested in crap. Loads. Buy lots of junky low end stuff that your going to upgrade away from later or just buy a decent set right off the bat. That's my 0.02 Too rich? Well then start off with the choseras , say 400 , 1k and 3k. Then get the rest later. But at least then you have some good stuff to start with so your not throwing away or trying to pawn off junk later on. Buy nice or buy it twice.

Lets say the OP wants to sharpen lots of s90v , s110v , zdp189 and Ceramics. And he wants to make them shave ready. I would recommend a full progression of diamond films and polycrystalline spray on nanocloth. Those films are expensive , and don't last long. But they eat up high carbide steel and ceramic knives.

In either case the op has not said what he is going to be doing. And what may be expensive for me may not be expensive for him or vice versa.
 
It still doesn't make any sense, no reason for that many diamond stones before the waterstones. Like I said XXC or in your case Atoma 140 to 400 chosera is not a issue. And as far as overlap goes you got it, a DMT fine is about equal to most 1k waterstones.

If you got chosera stones in your sights then look to the 400, 800, and 3k, you can thank me later. The 400 chosera and the Naniwa 2k green brick are even a awesomer combo.
 
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