CRK Warranty. Please explain.

  • Thread starter Thread starter -
  • Start date Start date

Hello all. I have been toying with the idea of getting a Sebenza for some time now. I see that CRK have a lifetime warranty... What are the limitations on this. By reading past posts I can see that altering the knife will void the warranty. What else will void this lifetime garauntee? What if I break the tip off of the blade??? will they assume I was not "Using the knife for it's intended purpose" and void my warranty or deny me service? I only buy knives I can trust and I have heard a lot of good things about the sebenza and I figure it is the most high speed pocket folder on the market. So please let me know the limitations on this warranty and a link to where I could read the entire warranty would be nice. Thanks.

------------------
First impressions are usually the scale by which we are judged unless we make our second with something sharp and pointy.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/albumList?u=879893&Auth=false
 
I don't know about "warranty" issues, because it'd be pretty hard to break a Ti. handle, or BG-42 blade unless you are really abusing the knife, or there is something seriously wrong.

Rust is not covered under warranty, because they can't tell if the knife was abused either.

A refurb. job will cost $25 to re-blast the handles, and another $25 to re-finish the blade. You have to pay for these services, because nothing will stay "like new" forever.

~Mitch

------------------
My Hobby Page
 
Chris Reeve Gaurantee
"This knife is guarenteed for life. It is desgined for a specific purpose. Should this knife fail after purchase by original user, due to faulty workmanship or materials, such defects will be made good free of cost. The right is reserved to make good such defects either by repair or replacement.

This gaurantee does not cover natural materials, incorrect apllications, neglect or abuse. Any modifications that are made to the knife after it has left our workshop will void this gaurantee.

This knife will be your most trustworthy companion, helper, defender. Look after it and it will look after you. "

This knife will serve you well Keith. It is the folder of folders as those Busse's are to fixed blades that you have.

------------------
Knives & Things
Mike Payne
 
Ryu,

You'll be disappointed with the Sebe if you're looking for a "high speed folder".

Great knife, yes!!

High speed flicker? Nope.

------------------
Frank Norman
Frank's Page
 
A sebenza is a superbly made cutting tool. Use is wisely and appropriately, and you'll never have to resort to calling CRK warranty service. The Sebenza is built strong but any tool will break, given enough abuse.

Haven't heard of anybody breaking off a Sebenza tip before, but if somebody did that, they are probably using the wrong tool for the job. It would probably shock any knife knut to see sombody using a $300 knife as a prybar.

When you buy a Sebenza, you're buying one of the finest folding knives ever made. With just a little care, you will be able to use it for a lifetime.

Red

------------------
"Praise not the day until evening has come;a sword until it is tried; ice until it has been crossed; beer until it has been drunk" - Viking proverb

[This message has been edited by redvenom (edited 10-19-2000).]
 
Maybe my above post seems a little negative. I guess I'm still bummed out about the pitting
frown.gif


I must say that CRK customer interaction is EXCELLENT. I must also say that I have had my Sebbie for about 7 months or so, and it has been a consisten daily carry. New knives come, I carry them, then they go back into the drawer. The Sebenza just likes it better on my belt, not the drawer.

Bottom line...buy it, it's well worth it. You're not likely to have to worry about warranty issues unless you make a judgement error (i.e. use it as a crowbar)
wink.gif


~Mitch

------------------
My Hobby Page
 
Originally posted by mpayne:
Chris Reeve Gaurantee
"This knife is guarenteed for life. It is desgined for a specific purpose".
Click to expand...

What is this knife's specific purpose? That's what I want to know. See I hate the abuse thing. My Busses are garaunteed for life PERIOD. If my Battle Mistress breaks while prying Jerry will hook me up. Not that I use my knives for prying often if at all but I like knowing I can. "should this knife fail" I don't know if I want to put my safety on the line here for a knife whose warranty says "should this knife fail" None of the knives I use present day should ever have a reason to fail. And they have been through hell and are still kickin. I like the look of the Sebenza and with the materials it's made from I can see why it's so good. Not to mention the expert craftsmanship of CRK which speaks for itself. But the question is do I wanna bank on the opinion that this is such a great knife. Questions questions questions. I thank all of you for your remarks here and if the Sebie is as good as the apparent impressions it has made on you guys then it must be awesome. Now only to decide if I wanna spend 300 plus on a folder.

------------------
First impressions are usually the scale by which we are judged unless we make our second with something sharp and pointy.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/albumList?u=879893&Auth=false

[This message has been edited by Ryu (edited 10-19-2000).]
 
I think there are at least two schools of thought here.

Mine is I can't imagine I'd be in a situation where I'd damage my Sebenza by abuse or neglect. If it occurred, I'd accept responsibility. Note that my range of use does not include prying, pounding, etc.
Therefore I think the above mentioned warranty is perfectly adequate.

I think there is another mindset set that says yes, I could conceivably use my knife hard, occasionally for prying or pounding etc. Further I've spent $300 on this knife it should be absolutely bulletproof. If you are of this mindset, then you may feel you want a "No Matter What" warranty.

I'd ask the question of what mindset are you?

FWIW, Busse is supposedly coming out with a folder, I know nothing about it's quality etc.

DaveH
 
Not really sure how to answer this one anymore Keith
smile.gif
I'm sure the Seb will uphold to at least any other folder you carry if not better. Will the tip hold up like a Battle Mistress? I doubt it. If you broke part of the tip on a Seb, would CRK fix or replace.....probably....although not sure which one.

Err.........could someone from CRK please help out on this one?
smile.gif


------------------
Knives & Things
Mike Payne
 
The comparison between our Sebenza and Busse's fixed blades is an apples and oranges one. The Sebenza is not a fixed blade, it cannot be guaranteed to stand up to the same conditions as a fixed blade - even though it does remarkably well.

We really can't say much more than our customers have already said - if you are not happy with the performance of any of our knives, please discuss this directly with us. In 16 years of being in business, Chris has only once refused to replace a broken knife and that was because it had been totally abused and thrown extensively.

The Sebenza was designed was as a general utility folding knife. It is not a prybar, a throwing knife or a toy, nor was it designed as a weapon. However, we have designed and built a knife that is very robust and performs exceptionally under many and varied situations, including prying and self-defense. We cannot be expected to guarantee against all conditions and eventualities.

Anne
 
I wasn't comparing the two different blades. Just illustrating the kind of warranty I admire. I know a folder can't be compared to a fixed blade. I use most any Pocket knife for self defense and the Sebenza is made so well I assume it would outperform any knife I have used to date. But if one is looking for an apples to apples comparison... then what about the warranty on the fixed blade knives. Is the warranty comparable to "Garaunteed for life against {any and all damage}"? Or do the fixed blade also have the abuse clause? Please don't take my questions to be doubt in the CRK name. I know they are fine high quality pieces. But I refuse to buy into a company untill I know the facts. But thank you to any and all who have or will reply to this post for adding your wisdom to the discussion.
 
Ryu,

I think you express the kind of "healthy skepticism" that most of us share with regards to knives. But your question also points to that area in which a maker’s claims must be balanced against the real-world burden of liability. When CRK (or any good maker) qualifies its guarantee (i.e., "for its intended purpose"), it should be viewed not as the co.’s lack of full confidence in its product but rather as its recognition of complex and sticky legal parameters beyond the co.’s control. Asking CRK for an absolute guarantee ("no strings attached") is asking for something it cannot legally sustain.

Or to put it another way: you are asking CRK not simply for a particular answer to your individual question and concern, but also for a general answer that accounts for the local dunce or wise-ass out to prove CRK wrong. No doubt, YOU would not use a Sebenza to pry apart steel I-beams, but you are essentially asking them to cover the idiot who does.

RE the Busse comparison: There are probably far more Sebenzas in circulation than all Busses combined; indeed, the Benz’s popularity for a high-priced knife may be unrivalled. Assuming this is true, CRK is proportionally that much more subject ("vulnerable") to potentially unanticipated legal challenges. Keep in mind also that Jerry Busse has said that he would be a bit skeptical about honoring a warranty on a knife that had been blow-torched in half. Were Busse to get a few replacement requests for knives that have been blow-torched or left in salt water for months, I’ll bet its "no strings attached" warranty would undergo a very fast revision.

As we all learn simply by hanging out at BF for a while, a maker’s reputation is not determined by his/her own word alone, anyway. The quality of a knife is best measured NOT by a maker’s guarantee or claims, but by the testimonies of its users. It takes only one story of a maker welching on a legitimate warranty claim for his/her reputation to take a dive. I cannot recall one case in which CRK has not made good on a complaint (and several have been aired here, publicly and prematurely, over the past year). In this respect, CRK’s quality AND customer service is unsurpassed, widely recognized as the pacesetter for the industry.

My .02 --
Glen
 
It is quite possible for blades to be covered by a full warrenty, there are a number of production and custom makers who offer such support. No clauses, no limitiations, just 100% coverage.


-Cliff
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp:
It is quite possible for blades to be covered by a full warrenty, there are a number of production and custom makers who offer such support. No clauses, no limitiations, just 100% coverage.


-Cliff
Click to expand...

And as storyville has pointed out if these makers would have a "rush" of abuse knives and were hurt financially by these claims they would have to change the policies... they just have not had a mis-use of their offers yet... an occasional request to cover an absolute mistreatment more than likely does no harm but enough would ... You know the bumper to bumper warranty on my truck just doesn't cover me hitting a tree...
smile.gif




[This message has been edited by tallpaul (edited 10-30-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp:
It is quite possible for blades to be covered by a full warrenty, there are a number of production and custom makers who offer such support. No clauses, no limitiations, just 100% coverage.
Click to expand...

Those production and custom makers (I only know of Busse among prod. co.’s) undoubtedly sell to a relatively limited, fairly discriminating market of patrons in whom makers feel they can place their absolute trust. I’ll bet CRK sells to a much broader market (with equally varying "knife competence" and trustworthiness) than all those limited-market makers combined.

BTW, Cliff -- Didn’t you have a problem recovering on a "no strings attached" warranty not so long ago? And, as most folks here would agree, that was not even a case of abuse. The Mad Dog warranty as undergone quite a bit of revision as a direct consequence of your "case."

Your experience has led me to develop two (main) criteria by which I measure the quality of a warranty: 1) that it should be "lifetime" or longer (i.e., passed on to children) in duration; and 2) that the maker have a public record of honoring all reasonable claims. Again, it takes only one bad story to compromise a maker’s reputation. Forums like BF help us to assess #2; they also establish what counts as "reasonable" by consensus of a relatively competent, well-informed, and genuinely enthusiastic public constituency. Is this precise science? Of course not; but neither is a warranty and the laws intended to guarantee it.

.02 more --
Glen
 
Glen :

I’ll bet CRK sells to a much broader market (with equally varying "knife competence" and trustworthiness) than all those limited-market makers combined.
Click to expand...

If you are talking about pure volume, then I would assume that Busse and Reeves are similar. Both are small shop operations. Strider is I think much smaller assuming that the Strider guys don't have additional people working on the blades, but Bill Martino handles HI which easily covers more ground than all of them. He now has a full shop with many makers plus has a near constant flow of blades from rural blademakers whose knives are scouted on a regular basis by people back in Malyasia. Camillus must easily outvolume the lot of them as well and the new Becker line has a full warrenty, so does Buck from what I have read on the forums.

Didn’t you have a problem recovering on a "no strings attached" warranty not so long ago?
Click to expand...

In McClungs defence, his argument was that his warrenty was "normal use only" when I bought the blade. His position was that he was not obglitated to cover the policy stated by many of his dealers including the one I bought it from (Lew). But yes I understand your point, a warrenty is only as good as how it handles its first claim.

the maker have a public record of honoring all reasonable claims.
Click to expand...

The problem I have with this is that of course you have no way of knowing if the maker and you will agree on what is reasonable. There are makers that I know I am in agreement with this on, but it takes a lot of back and forth before you are 100%. Personally I think that Drew Wilson had a near perfect idea when we discussed this a couple of years ago. In his opinion the maker should offer a one time abusive clause. So if you make a knife and the user intentionally does something fairly odd then you either give a refund and direct him elsewhere, or replace the blade and have a discussion about how much stress the blade can take. I don't think that is a conversation that is going to take place on a regular basis.


-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 10-30-2000).]
 
You guys are making way too much of this. CRK provides an undisputably high quality product that is industry recognized with a reputation for excellent customer service. If you follow this thread I believe that you be hard pressed to find a dissatisfied CRK customer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top