CRKT LAWKS Claim: Right or Hype?

Artfully Martial said:
Is there any way to remove the spring in the LAWKS mechanism?
Click to expand...

The guy at my local knife store recommended a drab of superglue to prevent the AutoLAWKS system from engaging, it doesn't take much cause it's a weak spring.

wutitiz said:
I don't follow you. The purpose of the LAWKS is to prevent the blade from accidentally closing on your finger, just as the purpose of the airbag is to prevent you from hitting something hard and getting hurt. I'm not sure what adding a second lever to the driver's door would accomplish.
Click to expand...

Because an airbag in your car doesn't require you to do something extra every time time you get out.
 
Lawks is the only reason I purshased some crkt knves.. I would not trust that crap without some sort of safety.. honestly..
Besides of the Apache series and their framelocks...
 
Tripton said:
Gimmick.

The M16 I have is probably weaker, lock-wise, than my other liner locks.

It certainly is thinner and chintzier.

That extra step to close it is really annoying.
Click to expand...

The strength and quality on M-16's vary significantly with model. The better ones (= more costly) like LE's are much stronger than the budgets - the Ti's are better again. I don't have a problem with the Autolawks - depressing the safety lever gets to be second nature with practice and I love the flipper. However would prefer a thicker contact point on CRKT linerlocks - even the linerlock on the Hissatsu looks flimsy in comparison to my CS Ti-Lites and Hatamoto - but I have yet to see a linerlock that gives me as much confidence as a Sebbie.
 
The airbags do add steps any time you need to do maintenance in the dash area--and add extra weight every time you drive your car.

BTW the 'W' in LAWKS stands for Walker, Michael, the guy who invented the liner-lock, so he must not have known much what he was doing, and it must have just been a 'marketing gimmick.'
 
wutitiz said:
The airbags do add steps any time you need to do maintenance in the dash area--and add extra weight every time you drive your car.

BTW the 'W' in LAWKS stands for Walker, Michael, the guy who invented the liner-lock, so he must not have known much what he was doing, and it must have just been a 'marketing gimmick.'
Click to expand...

LAkeWalkerKnifeSaftey for Ron Lake, Michael Walker Knife Safety LAWKS
 
Is the LAWK necessary? It was part of the Gerber Applegate Covert design long before I saw it on a CRKT. That one works just fine, and so does the LAWKS on my ti M16. I does exactly what it's supposed to do.

As for adding strength to the joint, not so much - and some fixed blades with stub tangs are notoriously weak. I've got to ask, are you planning to use any knife as a rock climbers pitot? I can't think of ANY legitimate use of a knife to stress it enough to cause pivot failure, much less tang failure. There is plenty of hype and bs about how they will break - and some actual evidence in psuedo-scientific tests to demostrate it, but almost 0 - zero - actual field reports from users that they actually depended on it for a valid reason.

What we usually see is a report about someone engaging in a questionable practice, if not outright abuse, which caused failure.

Or reports about knives that slipped the lock - usually a liner lock - and it folded on their fingers. The main problem with that is the user. They obviously didn't learn how to properly use a knife. Those of us who lived with slip joints for a few decades early in life sympathetically cringe - and then shake our collective heads and hope the lesson was learned.

If you have a real need or lack of woodsmanship that requires you to want an additional lock, the LAWKS is a good way to minimize the eventual injury you will suffer. But there are no guarantees that any knife will withstand XX number of pounds stress simply because no one can foresee just exactly how a user will abuse it.

Knives are for cutting. Anything involving 65 pounds of force on the tang or pivot should come with a certification for use - like a splitting maul.
 
Yeah yeah, we should all use folders like every one is a slipjoint...but you know what? When a knife has a locking blade, I expect it to do so, even if I am using it properly.


No, I have never had one close on me. Ever. Sure have cut myself flipping them around though.
 
antonio_luiz said:
...I have yet to see a linerlock that gives me as much confidence as a Sebbie.
Click to expand...
Well, a Sebbie is a frame lock, which is generally better than a liner lock. Still, if I were a betting man, I would bet on the LAWKS once the weights started to be added to the handles.

I'm not a big fan of linerlocks to begin with, and I, frankly, like having that little thingie between the liner and the frame. Even so, that's still an awfully long way from being a "virtual fixed blade" knife. I think even saying that is ridiculous. In fact, the only thing that may fit that bill is Cold Steel's new Tri-Ad locking system. I'm also very comfortable with the Axis/Ultra Lock.

Every time I see a video of someone adding a hundred pounds to the frame of a folder, I think, "Well, what about a hundred and twenty-five." And if they add that, I wonder what if they added a bit more. In other words, when have you seen a video of a CRKT LAWKS/AUTOLAWKS collapsing and sending knife parts all over a workbench? I've never seen it. (I'd love to see the outtakes of Cold Steel's video tests, wouldn't you?)

One of these days, someone will try testing a LAWKS to destruction, but so far I don't think it's been done. Perhaps the safety is strong enough to do what it's supposed to do. After all, if there were failures, we'd know about it here. So it's still a big question mark.
 
In my early days of knife collecting I bought many M16s and M21. all with Lawks or Auto-Lawks.

1. Not all Lawks are equal. My M16-Ti's is made of thicker steel than the one on my M21.
2. Some have a steel protrusion aiming against the lockbar and others have the steel protrusion aiming the scale. Can't remember which is which.
3. Different models have different gaps in the blade to scale. Important cause one way to fail is for lockbar to jam into the gap.
4. Different models have different shaped lockbar. M16-Ti has a hole in the moddel and M21 had narrower body.

And someother I have not been able to notice. It's important cause I do tests in my bored hours (I've got many bored hours and I run my own business so I have no boss to f me up) and more often and more significantly the un-lawks one failed more often. At one stage I took out the lawks cause it's so irritating and after noticing more failures I put them back.

In case you were wondering what sort of test I've done, it's no Noss but I just practised throwing and trying to get them to stick into a large cardboard box and sometimes (I lie, most of the time I miss) it misses and falls. I noticed when it falls it closes when I did not lawk it. So there have it, the lawks as an improvement is no hype but the 'like a fixed blade' marketing is maybe a hype.
 
Dekz said:
You don't need two hands to close a LAWKS/AutoLAWKS knife. Pull the LAWKS with index finger, move liner with thumb, close blade with index finger. A lot of people don't realize that once you have moved the liner, your finger doesn't have to hold the LAWKS lever any more.
Click to expand...

You're correct. I figured that out, and closed it on my thumb the third or fourth time I tried it - my fault, it just took some practice to do it reasonably quick.

thx - cpr
 
I have no fear of the liner collapsing on my M21 myself, perhaps, scootin off of the tang.


The liner on my Sere 2K, is pretty reassuring thunk when opened, it's no frame lock mind you, but stout enough.

Peace

WR
 
Tripton said:
Yeah yeah, we should all use folders like every one is a slipjoint...but you know what? When a knife has a locking blade, I expect it to do so, even if I am using it properly.


No, I have never had one close on me. Ever. Sure have cut myself flipping them around though.
Click to expand...


Great illustration of what I was saying - LAWKS seems to work, but sometimes users don't work knives so well. I have usually got cut closing a blade - or just being clumsy. But using a slipjoint in the early years has kept me from getting cut by two linerlocks that haven't worked right. They failed - unlocked and started to fold during use. The edge didn't get a bite because I was using a safe procedure - minimal back pressure during a point insertion.

Both had really thin liners and lock ramps beveled to assist opening, not stay locked, and were made by major makers. CRKT uses thin liners, too, but I've never had one fail, and with LAWKS, I'm reassured even more of the improbability. I don't mind that at all.

I've even learned to close a CRKT M16-13T one handed without looking - but I'm still responsible to keep my fingers out in the process.
 
airbags? i dont think they are a correct comparison., since the LAWKs backs up the liner lock it would be like having a back up airbag imho,
 
I used to EDC the m21-14sfg for 3 years , and had the lock fail me once when in a pinch I had to baton
Through some wood that was way too thick (5") , what failed wasn't the autolawk but rather the liner lock buckled and slipped away from the autolawk stopper. Not catastrophic as the blade wasn't able to close all the way due to the deformed liner lock still obstructing it's path, but it was floppy within a 30 degree arch. I took it apart and hammered the liner lock flat. Been using it since. I knew the risks of batoning witha folder but it was a case of having fire or not. The steel in is utility grade doesn't stay keen for long but it's easy to top up in the field. I dug holes in gravel with this knife before- no chips just dull edge. I've pryed with it etc... Essentially beat the crap out of it- only thing that made it wince was splitting wood. I've since moved to SOG spec Elite I for it's smaller pocket size, better steel, plain edge and arc lock. Single handed opening via flick of the wrist and easy one handed closing. Still keep my m21 as backup.
 
Confederate said:
I know this has been discussed before, but CRKT has always advertised its Lake and Walker Knife Safety (LAWKS) as making their knives "virtual fixed blades." In fact, the advertisements read: "You have the advantages of a fixed blade without the disadvantage of a costly sheath carry system."

Although I've heard of a LAWKS failure, I've never actually seen one, nor have I seen a video or photo of a failure. I'm interested in knowing how much weight I could expect my M16-14SFA to take before folding on me. A few years ago I talked to Lynn Thompson at Cold Steel, and he said the tests they'd done on CRKT's LAWKS showed catastrophic failure at about 45-75 pounds if I recall correctly. Does this sound right? If there was a failure, how would it happen? Would the blocking device be defeated or would the liner give?

Has anyone ever seen, or experienced, a LAWKS failure? And is AUTOLAWKS any better/worse?


CRKT_M21_LAWKS_det.jpg


The switch is easy enough to engage, and one can
train one's self to engage it each time it's opened.
The AUTOLAWKS does this automatically, however,
it adds weight to the flipping mechanism.


CRKT_M21_blokada_det.jpg


In the event of catastrophic failure, what would
give first, the blocker or the liner?
Click to expand...

Well, I have a couple with AutoLAWKS.

The lockup seems tight even though the liner appears very thin. Of course CRKT is publishing BS when they say it turns their knife into a "fixed blade".

As long as you're not abusing your knife (batoning logs for example :confused) it should hold up fine.

As for the AutoLAWKS, with a few minutes of practice it can be opened and closed in a flash.

Some people use a three-fingered method but I find it's easiest to pull the LAWKS thingy back with my index finger, push the liner lock in with my thumb and then use my index finger to shut the blade by pushing on the thumbstuds.

I just tried it now. Opened and closed in about 1.5 seconds.
 
Why does it take a quality knife to have a reliable liner lock? The lock itself appears quite simple. Is it the thickness of the liner, or other factors?
 
...Boberama, ...when you got nothing but wet logs and if the blade was the only thing around hard enough to even begin trying to get at the dry stuff inside and hypothermia is a knocking..you'd be more then happy to pound that piece of steel into something. At the end of the day the knife is just a tool and if it doesn't help me in a pinch its nothing more then pocket adornment. Knowing the risks, I don't mind chancing blade failure if its ultimately constructive to a greater outcome. One handed operation of the autolawks is a breeze as you state. From my experience arch locks are even nicer- however the risk of catastrophic failure is greater since there is no bent liner lock to stop the blade from closing across your fingers.
 
One of my EDC knives is a CRKT Crawford Falcon with the Lawks system. I can deploy, lock and unlock one handed.

20+ years ago I accidentally hit the lock while cutting something and closed a Buck 110 on my pinky. Filleted the skin right down to the bone, bled so much.

I really like the piece of mind the double lock gives me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top