CRKT's AUS8A Stainless: How Hard?

[Confederate]

The question of performance is always a sticky one. In the gun world, performance is of paramount importance, probably because if a gun doesn't perform well, one either loses the hunt or, worse, one's life. In the knife world, performance often takes a distinct back seat. Knife technology has come a long way and, unfortunately, we've gone from a lot of 440C back down to some of the more inexpensive steels. Having said that, I don't have any problems with AUS8 steel when it's done right. On the same hand (as opposed to the "other" hand), two knives can perform almost identically and yet be separated by many hundreds of dollars.

Are we better off than we were two or three decades ago? Almost assuredly. But there will always be a rift between those who see knife making as an artform and those whose attitude is "gimme the damn knife!" I also think the mixture of these waters often sets up some heady currents that make swimming difficult. At some point, everyone reaches a point of diminishing marginal returns and, frankly, that point is quite often all over the place.

My initial point in this thread wasn't how good AUS8 is, but how good CRKT's AUS8 is. I've used Cold Steel's AUS8 now for several years and it's more than adequate. If I had my own shop facilities and could make (or afford) knives made from the finest steel, would I carry AUS8? Probably not. But as a guy who's secondary hobby is a fair to middlin' interest in knives, I'm not going to pay several hundred dollars for a folding knife, especially when I can get a cheaper one with the same grade of excellent steel that will give me equal performance. That, however, is not to say that I'm critical of those who do. I sometimes think that knife makers need to occasionally readjust their perspective. I also think that I many times need to adjust my perspective.

Back when warriors had expensive suits of armor made, they many times went the extra mile to engrave them and to make them things of beauty. The same thing's true of knife making today, and even if folks like me can't afford it, I enjoy seeing photos of finely made knives.

 

[SPERRON]

AUS8 is good enough to get you through just about any task. Then you will have to sharpen it. So, if you don't mind sharpening your knife frequently, its a good steel. It keeps the knife's price down because it is easy to tool and cheaper to purchase the stock.

 

[gunmike1]

I have a couple burr prone CRKT's in AUS-8. The one I had RC tested was 57 RC, if I remember correctly.

Mike

 

[symphonyincminor]

AUS8A is a wonderful working steel because:

It sharpens up quickly and takes a keen edge
It is more likely to roll than chip out - easier to sharpen
It's inexpensive

I wish more companies would use it, but at a higher HRc.

 

[Confederate]

It's amazing that knife tests so infrequently mention HRc. My M21-04 cuts well and sharpens well, but it does not seem to be the equal of the blades in my Cold Steel. A company can print "56-58" and yet pop out ten blades that are HRc 56 for every one that makes it through a bit harder. Yet for all the reviews I've read, I've never seen CRKT's AUS8 compared with that in other knives. Still, I have an S-2 that has an ATS-34 blade, and it holds an edge very well.

 

[vwb563]

Everyone makes "too" big of a deal out of "how hard is this steel?" and "this steel will make 10 more cuts through manila rope v/s this other steel." I've had several Crkt's in both aus8, aus6, and aus4 and all have performed well holding their edges with no problems. They are excellent knives for the money. Any knife no matter what steel is gonna eventually have to be sharpened so as long as the knife can perform the intended task at hand it doesn't matter to me if it still has its hair shaving edge at the end of the task. I"ve had Spydercos in s30v and given equal tasks, they have been just as dull at the end of a cutting task as my crkt's have been. Personally I'd rather have a softer steel that can withstand some prying and twisting and might bend a little, over one that will snap at the first attempt at a mild prying or boring job. I remember reading sometime back about some poor guys zdp189 Kershaw or maybe it was a Spyderco knife, tip snapping off at a mere attempt to bore a hole through a piece of plastic. I'll take a softer blade anyday that can handle these tasks over one that is so hard it breaks and chips out. At least most knives with a bent tip can be bent back if done correctly. The same can't be said for one with a broken tip! Thats my humble opinion anyway.,,VWB.

 

[symphonyincminor]

I remember reading sometime back about some poor guys zdp189 Kershaw or maybe it was a Spyderco knife, tip snapping off at a mere attempt to bore a hole through a piece of plastic. I'll take a softer blade anyday that can handle these tasks over one that is so hard it breaks and chips out. At least most knives with a bent tip can be bent back if done correctly. The same can't be said for one with a broken tip!

It wasn't a Spyderco - it was a ZDP Leek that lost its tip because the owner was asking for it. Applying lateral stress to very tip of a knife (twisting it into a hard material) isn't smart - Leek's already have a fine tip. It wasn't the steel that was the problem.

I lost the tip on a Buck 110 while doing routine work (cutting cardboard - the tip got caught up and I bent the knife laterally to remove it) - but wait a second! That's a pretty soft, tough steel that should have handled the situation! Well, it goes to show that any knife tip will give up the ghost if it's being misused, period.

 

[Confederate]

Everyone makes "too" big of a deal out of "how hard is this steel?" and "this steel will make 10 more cuts through manila rope v/s this other steel." I've had several Crkt's in both aus8, aus6, and aus4 and all have performed well holding their edges with no problems.

Good points. Someone on another thread mentioned his AUS8 edge tended to "roll" when cutting green branches or such, but even dull blades and edges that roll a bit can still cut many, many things. I have a CRKT AUS6 M13-14 and it loses it's hair-splitting edge quickly, but extremely keen edges have only become popular comparatively recently. Even when the scary sharp is gone, the knife still cuts wood pretty darn good. And a blade that's dull as dirt can also be useful in a number of applications.

I don't know if it's true, but I've read that Damascus blades never get completely dull because of the way they're layered. I have a Bear & Son folder with 512 layers and I haven't used it enough to know; but what you say makes sense. Still, when comparing oranges to oranges (as is the case in comparing CRKT AUS8 with the same steel in other knives), I was curious based on credible reports I'd heard. The only problem I've had is with a Desert Cruiser. I don't know if it's the steel or the chisel grind blade.

 

[flashlife]

... I have a CRKT AUS6 M13-14 and it loses it's hair-splitting edge quickly, but extremely keen edges have only become popular comparatively recently....

Confed, please define "recently". My knives have been keen since 1958, when I was too young to have enough arm hair to test them...my dad tested them on his arm for me.

 

[Confederate]

Oh, sorry. By "recently" I mean the last 50-100 years.

My grandfather was a machinist and his knives were never razor sharp. He did a lot of woodworking in his spare time and made me things like slingshots when I was a kid. He had a shack out back where he used to work with both metal and wood and for years he worked with the railroad in Paducah, Kentucky.

1958 is still very recent.

 

[vwb563]

It wasn't a Spyderco - it was a ZDP Leek that lost its tip because the owner was asking for it. Applying lateral stress to very tip of a knife (twisting it into a hard material) isn't smart - Leek's already have a fine tip. It wasn't the steel that was the problem.

I lost the tip on a Buck 110 while doing routine work (cutting cardboard - the tip got caught up and I bent the knife laterally to remove it) - but wait a second! That's a pretty soft, tough steel that should have handled the situation! Well, it goes to show that any knife tip will give up the ghost if it's being misused, period.

My knives are used as tools. If I need to scrap dirt from underneath my nails the they get used as scrappers. If I need to cut open a package then they get used as knives. If I need to bore a hole through a piece of plastic to save getting out the cordless drill, which always seems to be dead anyway, then they get used a drills. My point is a good knife should be able to handle light duty jobs that are not always about cutting. As far as breaking the tip off a Buck 110, well buck uses a good steel but they hardned it to around 58-59 R-C scale which is kinda brittle which gets back to my point of I'd rather have a softer steel that can handle some abuse and have sharpen it a little more often than one that holds a fantastic edge but is so brittle it snaps or chips at just cutting cardboard.,,,VWB.

Just noticed this is my 500th post. ,,,VWB.

 

[neeman]

... have a CRKT AUS6 M13-14 and it loses it's hair-splitting edge quickly, but extremely keen edges have only become popular comparatively recently. Even when the scary sharp is gone, the knife still cuts wood pretty darn good. ...

I have 5 CRKT knives in AUS 8.
I do not know the hardness of the steel.

I do know they work well.
Easy to sharpen, holds an edge well for work.
The steel is soft enough that a couple of passes on an Extra Fine DMT and they are back to where I want them.
I can get them to hair popping sharp, but I don't bother, I keep them at working sharp.

 

[Razorsharp244]

There use to be a poster here on the forums who expelled to virtues of the lower grade steels since they have such small carbides. So does Lead! LOL!!!.

Hi Michael Lovett,
Since we (Sandvik) are in the business of fine-carbide steels i want to comment on this statement.

The grades you listed are not fine-carbide steels by neccessity. They CAN be but in most of our investigated samples of 420, 440A, AUS6, 3Cr13, 1.4112 etc there are large (primary carbides). Eliminating primary carbides is not exactly easy. A fine-carbide steel must reach high hardness, the same as for the 440C you praise so highly. Our steels 12C27 and 13C26 reaches higher hardness than 440C while still being fine-carbide grades. The "virtue" of fine-carbide steels is the edge properties. In short, shaving with 440C in your Gillette razor would cut your face up while leaving the beard where it was.

Steels are different and have different properties which fits a wide range of applications. In the guide I have written there is more info for you if you are interested. If you want to comment the guide or have questions please press the link "We value your input" and it reaches my personal mailbox.

www.smt.sandvik.com/hardeningguide

Regards
//Jerker

 

[Confederate]

Great website, Razorsharp224. I'm somewhat surprised by the emphasis on corrosion resistance in most applications. It's never been a big concern for me as I've always been careful with firearms. I remember that my knives when I was a kid would rust inside the frame, but my blade was always clean. If they offered more folders with carbon steel blades and stainless 420 liners and such, I'd be happy. The hard chrome and teflon finishes also offer blade protection that wouldn't require building the corrosion resistance into the blade itself. Lately, I've become a great advocate of hard chroming because it also greatly resists wear, yet is so thin it doesn't build up in the tightest corners.

 

[Razorsharp244]

Thanks Confederate, glad you like it.

If this guide was for forumites we could probably have forrgotten about corrosion resistance since just about anyone here takes care of their knives. But most people treat their knives less carefully. Our recommendations are on the conservative side in terms of both hardness and corrosion resistance. The reason is that more people get upset with a brittle blade breaking than if the blade is a point softer than optimal. And people buying "stainless" knives sometimes think that stainless means that it can stand any kind of environment, like salt water, dishwasher etc.

Our grades are developed for "enough" corrosion resistance for the required application. "Normal use", "dishwasher safe" etc. There is no point in maximizing corrosion resistance since that means huge tradeoffs in edge performance.

//Jerker

 

[Confederate]

Well, you're right about people getting ticked about breaking tips. I can fully appreciatiate strong blades because I can always sharpen a blade, but I can't fix a broken knife. That's why I do pay attention to Cold Steel's propping a knife in a vice and bending it to show its resiliance. I like knowing a knife will take that kind of punishment. On the other hand, I don't like seeing photos like the one circulating on this board from time to time, of a broken Recon Tanto sticking out of a stump. Yes, knives can be abused, but the indestructible knife has always been a kind of a holy grail among knife owners. Alas, edge retention also is a holy grail. Corrosion resistance creeps in to the equation somewhere along the line, probably more in the former than the latter.