Crosman 1377 Pellet Gun

I'm still around and I post on this forum now and then. I have a 1377 and I love it, but I think you'd be better off with a 1322 for hunting (and of course even that is too light for raccoon).
 
Good to hear us old farts are still around. :) But what about the fact that the .22 doesn't travel as fast as the .177? And the .177 says, "up to 600 fps" Up to? If it's 523, tell me 523. That's like saying, savings of 50, 60, 70% and more! What's more than 70%? Tell me?
 
Kootaga13 said:
But what about the fact that the .22 doesn't travel as fast as the .177? And the .177 says, "up to 600 fps" Up to? If it's 523, tell me 523. That's like saying, savings of 50, 60, 70% and more! What's more than 70%? Tell me?
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Speed is in itself irrelevant. Pellet weight vs speed, or the energy carried down range is what is important. That is what gives good penetrating power.
Not all pellets weigh the same. There is a wide variety of designs and weights to choose from, and each one performs differently. A heavy .177 pellet will travel slower than a light .177 pellet but may retain more energy at the target, so it will be more effective.
Manufacturers generally choose a very light pellet for testing and use this as the basis for making the high speed claims. Generally, real world numbers are somewhat lower. In addition, power can vary from gun to gun, even consecutive shots from the same gun can have a 20 or 30 fps spread. This inconsistency is due mostly to the somewhat cheesy production standards at Crosman. Everything is plastic inside that gun. Pumping it a lot gets the gun hot, and that quickly kills the cheap plastic piston seal. It is easy to put a couple hundred bucks into a current model 1377 in order to get it shooting well. You need to replace just about everything except the tube and grip frame to make it a decent pistol.

Scottman said:
Even squirrel skull at 15 paces can stop pellets from a 1377
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Only if the gun is broken.
I have whacked plenty of squirrels off the bird feeders at about 15 yards with low power .177 match rifles made by Walther and Feinwerkbau.
500-600 fps is plenty for squirrels under 20 yards.

Scottman said:
Even the sheridan with domed pellets can fracture and not penetrate all the way squirrel skull at 15 paces.
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Again, your guns must need some work. I shoot gophers at 40 yards with my Sheridans with no issues. At 15 paces a Sheridan should be able to shoot through a squirrel and the one behind it as well.
 
I shoot rats in the trees (actual rats, not squirrels) up to about 12 yards, often with only 7 or 8 pumps in my 1322. Rats are very tough critters and even at those low speeds it takes them out. Rabbits at longer ranges (15 or so) I use 12 pumps and have never had a fail to penetrate. If you look at the picture I posted earlier, the rabbits front leg is shattered from a missed shot. He had his head down eating and moved right as I squeezed the trigger. That is with a stock internal (except for trigger) 1322 at about 18 paces iirc. Using 14.3 grain Crosman Premier Hollow Points.

If your getting bouncing pellets on squirrels at 15 paces, something is wrong.


-X
 
Thanks guys. Everything you say gets me further down the road or "up the tree"

Let me see what I've learned so far? If you were going squirrel hunting. You'd rather have a .22, shooting, lets say 450 fps, than a .177 shooting 550 fps? I know it depends on the round but how would the weight of the rounds compare?
 
Energy between your two examples with average pellet weights (7.2gr .177 & 14.3gr .22) will be about the same. Consider this, the internals of the 13xx do not change between the 1377 and 1322, so all things being equal it is going to build/expend about the same amount of energy no matter the pellet. X amount of pressure can push a pellet of varying weights only to so fast, but the amount of pressure doesn't change. Downrange energy is something different and trajectory will vary between the two (drag, gravity, velocity, etc).

Personally, if shooting at extreme angles like into tree tops, ballistic distance is much shorter so the flatter trajectory of the .177 is no longer a bonus. The .22 will be shooting just as flat at those angles, so less or no holdover. If shooting flat, like for ground squirrels, it's kinda a toss up and what you prefer. I use a .177 spring rifle on them out to ~45 yards and the 1322 out to about 10-15 yards.


-X
 
Thank you. I had to read it twice and the 2nd time slowly, but thank you.

The one and only time I used a spring rifle (break barrel?) that sucker was so loud there was no way at all you would ever think of getting off a second shot. What are your thoughts regarding that?
 
A properly tuned springer (break barrel is one type, there are also side lever and under lever) will be smooth and quieter. If it is something you are considering I highly recommend a Xisico from flying dragon air rifles. Mike Mellik personally checks every single one for proper function and for extra will perform a full tune to smooth them out. They price really isn't that bad fully tuned either, comparable to an untuned Diana or other high quality European rifle. Plus, Xisico has a lifetime transferable warranty.

I shoot a Gamo because I got a screaming deal and when tuned they are excellent guns. Springers do require a different hold to be extremely accurate and it takes a little practice, but isn't very difficult or takes very long to figure out. Basically hold them very loose, no pressure into your shoulder. Springers are nice because you just need a pocket full of pellets and your gun to go afield. Same can be said for pumpers though.

-Xander
 
A subsonic springer (like most .22 pellet rifles - subsonic, that is) isn't much louder than the a pump type in my experience, especially factoring in that you don't need multiple pumps to get that second shot up to full power. The key to the quiet, imo, is the pellet speed. The mechanism itself shouldn't be too loud, whether lever or break barrel.

A supersonic .177's on the other hand, can be nearly as loud as an actual firearm.

I'll second the recommendation for Xisico and Mike Mellik. I've had a few conversations with him, and plan to upgrade my break barrel Beeman to one of their tuned under barrel lever models.
 
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Gentlemen, once again, thank you for the knowledge. Even if I don't decide to purchase, possibly a deal will come along someday and I'll be an educated consumer?

I guess my big question now is what dollar range are you guys in? When talking about getting Mike to tweak the mechanism, I know that you're definitely NOT talking about low dollar air rifles. Where are we and which models to be exact? .22's or possibly .25's?
 
Mike's tuned Xisico rifles are surprisingly good values. Between $130 and $260 depending on model. Compared with the RWS I was looking at, at $500ish, and that doesn't include a tune.
 
Yep under $300 fully tuned and ready to rock! He also has .25 caliber, but unless you really enjoy air gunning and having to always order pellets, I suggest you stick to the big two calibers, .177 and .22 where you can find pellets locally in a good selection. There are a lot of advantages to .20, but not a great pellet selection.


-X
 
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