cross bow or long bow

H

hannibal lecter spyderco

Joined
Mar 29, 2001
Messages
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I have never used a weapon of this type before but I would think that if your going to do some serious bug out. I would think that you may need one or the other as amno runs out. Now my question is any advantage over one or the other? If so any recommendation as to which bran to get. I'm leaning towards the cross bow since it looks like its easier to use.
 
Where I live it's illegal to hunt with a crossbow (TN). My personal preference is a good take-down recurve 62" long or longer. Since I draw a 29" arrow. Most shorter bows I've shot stack up real bad at about 28". As for crossbows I noticed a real lack of range. Even though the bow draws 150#, it requires a heavier bolt in order to be safe. My PSE Raven SD will shoot 220 FPS(draws 65#). I've cronograghed a Barnett recurve crossbow at 170FPS. One plus to a crossbow is that getting a shot on the ground is alot more feasible, since you don't have to come to full draw to shoot. Damn deer see it everytime, or so it seems. If I was going to buy a bow for the first time I would definately go to a pro shop, and not get one mail- order. Actually I'd go to some local 3-D shoots, and see what people use. Most folks will let you try out their bow, if you ask nice. Hope this helps- rambling on one of my favorite subjects.
 
Slow1's comments about "stack-up" are right on the money. Avoid the shorter length bows unless you are already a very accomplished Archer.

Crossbows are legal here in Arkansas, but I despise the silly things. There is nothing a crossbow does that something else doesn't do a lot better. Contrary to popular opinion, crossbows are not all that accurate, and despite the high poundage numbers, they're not all that powerful either.

If you don't want to consider "wheels" (a compound bow) then I'd say Longbow is the way to go. They take a lot of practice, and can be very frustrating to learn but once learned, they are wonderful!

Very light, extremely accurate in the right hands, and your "emergency repair kit" consists of a spare string.

There are some excellent take-down longbows available, but they are not cheap. Recurve bows are okay but they're not as accurate as the longbows and they're also not as quiet as a good longbow.
 
i always thought that cross bows were really accurate and that they were a lot stronger than a long bow. Futhermore, I was told that a cross bow is quite easy to learn how to shoot and hit a target compared to a long bow. I was told takes about 5 tries and you get the hang of it.. and can hit a target far away. Furthermore why do states ban cross bow, if they aren't as powerful as long bows.
 
Originally posted by Ken Cook

There are some excellent take-down longbows available, but they are not cheap. Recurve bows are okay but they're not as accurate as the longbows and they're also not as quiet as a good longbow.
Click to expand...

Ken, if by longbow you are referring to the oval cross section 'self' bow (often made of yew) then I have to disagree that they are more accurate than a modern composite recurve.

Having said that, nothing is as accurate in the right hands as a compound with a trigger release. The compound also has the real advantage of let off when it is drawn.

Look at the Olympics - they don't use longbows any more, they use recurves and compounds.

I shot recurve and compound in target and field events for my University.

Andy
 
I have a compound recurve crossbow, a regular compound, a recurve, and a longbow. I like to shoot the longbow most of all (yew with composite reinforcing). However, the compound with a roller bearing release is certainly the most accurate in my hands (as observed above). The compound crossbow is one of the Barnett 300 series. I find it pretty accurate, with good range and penetration. However, it feels more like shooting a very short-range rifle. It just doesn't feel like archery.

That said, many people find it fairly easy to get up to speed on a crossbow----without developing the skills required for real archery. That's one reason they are popular with poachers and banned in some areas. (In Calif., I believe they are permitted only during rifle season.)

For survival use the crossbow might be passable for people unwilling to develop real archery skill, but remember that they are usually heavy, awkward, and have more components to fail than a longbow or recurve.
 
Without arguing the merits of this arrow launcher or that, I will address what seems to me the heart of the question- appropriateness for bug-out/survival.

Unless you are a skilled fletcher and can make an arrow out of found natural materials from the stick up, I don't think a bow is practical. Any compound bow or Xbow is going to be bulky. Carrying a brace of arrows for it is that much more weight and bulk. True, the projectiles are reusable, but only if you can recover them undamaged, if you can recover them at all. The draw weights on most compounds and some recurves provide sufficient force to shatter a stick you glued some feathers and a flint on. If you opt for the Hiawatha route you are going to have to develop some serious skills. Not just using the equipment, but making it ALL from scratch so you can repair or replace it when there isn't a sporting goods store around. I have nothing but respect and admiration for anyone with the drive and commitment to go that primal, but most of us would simply get more practical use from a well selected firearm and a sensible store of ammo.

All that said, archery is a worthwhile pursuit in its own right for either game-getting or recreation. I have and shoot a compound bow (Pearson Spoiler- awesomest hunting bow ever!) and a crossbow (Horton 175#-wow!) I cut my archery teeth on a recurve and picked up a compound when I decided to hunt. I'm thinking about putting together a recurve rig to try my hand at bow-fishing.
 
skills, skill nothing like them you can't forget to pack them and tey don't break or run out.

learning bowyery, fletchery, flint knapping and other skills is a grea pass time and give you a ready arsanl for self defense and hunting with a little work, it will also help keep you occupied when you are setteled for te night.
 
I've hunted with just about every device man has created to hunt with. My personal choice these days is the Longbow. I no longer own rifles for hunting. My choice was made not only due to the facts stated much more eloquently than I could by those above me on this post, but for satisfaction. It takes a lot more discipline and practice to become proficient with a longbow. Many times a hunt ends without getting a shot. Your average shot for a stickbow shooter is around 15-20 yards. That's a lot of hard stalking. To me, each of those stalks teaches me something new about the wilderness and the animal I am hunting. Therefore, I become a better hunter and a better recon team member. I have never been dissapointed with a hunt whether I took a shot or not.
Aside from simple repairs, It is a much easier weapon to improvise. If you are caught out in the middle of Gods country in a survival situation, try improvising a crossbow. If you've got a piece of paracord, you have a bow in the making. If you are familiar with shooting a longbow, chances are pretty good that you will be eating something other than bugs and rats in short order.
Aside from that, I enjoy shooting the 3D matches much more with the Traditional Bow set. Wheel bow shooters get extremely competative and can be downright nasty at times. I've never even heard an argument amongst the Tradbow folks. We don't seem to be out there to win prizes. It always seems to be more about becoming better archers.
That's my .02 for what it's worth.
recondoc
 
I've played with crossbows and real bows. Both are fun. Crossbows are certainly easier to become accurate with provided you can draw to cock them in the first place (with or without assists what ever is available in your particular situation).

Crossbows are not more powerful than good long bows, and the reason is simple... While the draw weights are twice as heavy, the throw distance, the distance the string travels while its pushing the arrow, is half as much as a long bow. The power of a bow is determined by (draw weight) x (throw distance). If you represent weight by Z and distance by Y then it is always true that (Z x Y) = (2Z x Y/2) and that is why crossbows have roughly the same range and ultimate stopping power as long bows.

Personally I think archers are just being snobs when they snub crossbow shooters. One could easily be a real snob and insist on using a spear, or perhaps an <a href="http://www.quine.home.sonic.net/atlatl.html">atlatl</a>. Of course I'm an atlatlist!
 
I had a cross bow once and I could
hit coffee cans at 30 yards with
very dependable accuracy.
I've shot with a recurve and maybe
could hit the barn door at 30 yards.
Never did go any farther with it and
foolishly left it strung in the
garage for 24 hours in the summer.
The prod gave way and that was that.
From my experience I'd say that it is
definitely easier to learn to shoot
accurately with a cross-bow.
That being said I've never been
stronly inclined to get another one,
but have acquired another recurve, which
I'll try shooting some day.
 
I've had both and prefer a bow as it is easier to draw quickly. A hunting weight crossbow requires some type of cocking aid which is a hassle.

A crossbow requires a higher draw weight than a bow because of the lighter weight of the projectile and the shorter power stroke. There is a fair amount of friction with a crossbow as well.

Some crossbows are very hard on strings , wearing them out quickly compared to a stick bow. ;)
 
Andy,
I love my "wheels" bows, but I'll leave them out of this discussion as I consider them totally unsuitable as a survival tool.

I know that the "Recurve" versus "Longbow" has been going on for centuries and no one has managed to change anyone's mind yet, but Howard Hill was once asked why he shot a longbow instead of a recurve.
His reply? "I'm not good enough to shoot well with a Recurve."

I grew up shooting recurves and thought I was pretty good with them. Then I went to the longbow and almost immediately saw a quantum leap in accuracy. It works for me. Yes, I know they shoot recurves in Olympic competition, but the reason why they choose Recurves over Longbows is because you can't mount an adjustable sight on a Longbow. ;) (not enough riser)

Either way, shoot what works best for you.

ReconDoc...
Wonderful feeling hunting with a longbow isn't it? :D

Scotjute,

I've got to be very careful here, I don't by any means wish to offend you, but merely to point out the deficiencies of the crossbow.
If any of my compound bows could only <b>"hit coffee cans at 30 yards with very dependable accuracy."</b> I'd probably smash them in a fit of rage and despair.

A properly tuned compound bow with properly spined arrows should be able to split quarters at 30 yards. Yes, quarters. You know, 1/4th of a dollar. At 20 yards, hitting aspirins should be a challenge, but not too much of a challenge. Granted, keeping a compound bow that precisely tuned is a science unto itself and requires constant "tinkering" but it can be done once you know how. I've got enough "Called Robin Hood Shots" with my compounds that it's not even worth bragging about anymore. At 20 yards, I can bust the other guy's arrow almost "on demand." The bad news is, I was never even close to being the best shooter in my club. There were at least half a dozen guys that could make me look really bad any time they wanted to.

Unless you suffer some handicap that will not allow you to draw a bow, a compound will always be a better choice than a crossbow.

BTW, No, I can't get "aspirin busting" accuracy with my Longbow, but that's not the bow's fault, it's mine. ;)
 
No offense taken. I claim absolutely
no skill and limited knowledge in the
field of archery. I have shot
30 lb recurve as a teenager and never
achieved any accuracy. Neither did
I try very hard or long.
With the cross bow, I assembled it and
went out to shoot. Within a few minutes
I achieved what (for me) was a wonderful
level of accuracy. Unfortunately I had
to do other things, left it strung and the
prod broke.
Up until I traded a rifle for a recurve
last year (which I have yet to even string)
I've done nothing in the field of archery.
Did watch some people shooting with compound
bows about a year ago and was amazed at what
they were able to do with them. Almost as good
as the accuracy you're achieving.
How long did it take you to achieve the level
of accuracy that you now have? Which bows would
you consider the easiest to learn with or achieve
a reasonable level of accuracy on? Perhaps you
could rank them (recurve, longbow, compound).
(a reasonable level of accuracy to me would be
hitting a 6" circle at 50 yards)
 
Andy,
I use a custom left handed longbow made by Jim Brackenberry. (Best known for his recurves.)
50 pound draw at 28 inches and it's as sweet and smooth as anything I've ever shot.

Scot,
I've been involved in Archery since I was about 8 years old. (about 32 years ago.) I started out with the famous Bear "Cub." A red fiberglass 10 pound recurve and worked up from there.

Shooting a bow is an easy thing to learn, it only takes a couple things.
1. Time
2. Effort

A Coach who knows what he's doing and how to teach it never hurts either. ;)

Your definition of "reasonable accuracy" is pretty stiff.
50 yards is extreme distance for any bow, and beyond the responsible hunting range of all but the most powerful compounds in the hands of the most experienced archers. Reguardless of what bow I'm carrying, 40 yards is the maximum distance I'll consider shooting at, and even then I'd only take a perfectly set up shot with a perfectly tuned compound. If the arrow's not doing at least 300 FPS when it leaves the bow, forget about taking this shot.

A few of us in my club used to shoot at extreme range on 3D targets just for "braggin rights" and we'd go all the way out to 65 and 70 yards and I once had a 68 yard shot at the Ben Pearson Memorial Shoot, but it's not normal and you sure wouldn't want to stick a deer at those ranges, it would just be irresponsible. A perfect hit wouldn't have enough energy to reliably down the animal.

Try this for a "reasonable" accuracy definition.

If you can put 120 arrows in a row inside a 1 inch circle at 20 yards, you may be next year's National Indoor Archery Champion.
That's how big the X-ring is on the "5-Spot" Indoor Archery target.
Drop one out of the X-Ring though, and you're out of the running.

The last competition I shot was the Arkansas Indoor Championships back in 98. I was looking very good for taking home a nice "dust collector" right up until the moment when I blew my shoulder out. My wife managed to bring home a State Championship for her division though! :D

Because of the shoulder injury, I just can't stand to shoot 120 flights in a day and still keep the accuracy needed to be competitive, so now I just shoot for myself.

Which is easiest to learn?
Hmmmm....

Tough call. It depends largely on what you're looking for.
You can go spend a lot of money at the local Archery shop and be outshooting most Traditional Shooters in a month or two. Only problem is, you'll be using a lot of gadgets, gizmos, and geegaws to do it and you'll eventually have to learn how to tune all that stuff yourself or start signing your paychecks over to the "Pro" at the Archery shop.

The other route, is buy yourself a GOOD Traditional bow and spend half an hour every night after work shooting.

Shooting traditional you'll need to buy a few things
1. A bow
2. Two strings (always have a spare set up and ready)
3. A leather arm guard (Don't forget this one, you'll need it!)
4. A dozen arrows
5. A target

Buy a good "arrow stop" target and don't bat an eye at spending 100 bucks on it. The money it will save you in damaged arrows will make it pay for itself very quickly.

Learning to shoot your bow is a matter of time and practice. Fortunately, it's FUN! You don't have to spend hours every day, just make sure you shoot a litte EVERY DAY!

This will allow you to learn your bow and teach you to become a good instinctive shooter. (What all Traditional Archers want to be!)

Start at 10 yards and when you get a nice cluster of arrows in the target, move back a little farther and start all over again. Before you know it, you'll be busting your target at 30 yards and MORE than ready to go deer hunting!
 
You can't compare accuracy of a crossbow to that of a longbow or recurve unless you talk apples to apples comparing comparable equipment and shooters. An expert crossbowman with good equipment will be very close if not marginally better than an expert longbowman with comparable equipment. However, it is much easier to get to that point with the crossbow than with the longbow.

I once spent 30 minutes a day for 2 whole months with a medium quality 45lb target longbow and was able to group arrows consistently in the target's inner THREE rings at 40 yards - I like those longish shots. I could get to the inner 2 rings (same range) with a similar quality crossbow in <i>one 30 minute session.</i> That's the difference between them!

You can, by the way, draw a hunting crossbow without assist (other than the stirrup). I have drawn a 175 lb. x-bow with only my arms, and I'm not a very big guy. It isn't that hard. Alas my crossbow sits idle now because I don't have a backstop that my bolts won't go right through or get buried in the middle of. Setting up an appropriate back-stop for a crossbow is harder than for a longbow because the x-bow arrows (or bolts) are much shorter and are not stopped as easily by straw bales and other such safe materials as are longer conventional bow arrows.
 
I'm sorry for the confusion, I wasn't trying to compare the crossbow to any traditional bow as far as accuracy is concerned.

However, let me point out that while you can very quickly reach the level of accuracy you mentioned with your crossbow, you can spend another 20 years shooting it and you won't get any better. You have reached the accuracy potential of the equipment.

If you don't think the Longbow is capable of better accuracy, you've never seen Byron Ferguson send a long bow arrow through the hole of his wife's diamond engagement ring! :D

A good longbow will shoot as accurately as any shooter possibly CAN shoot, and you can't ask any more of any piece of equipment than that.
:D
 
However, let me point out that while you can very quickly reach the level of accuracy you mentioned with your crossbow, you can spend another 20 years shooting it and you won't get any better. You have reached the accuracy potential of the equipment.
Click to expand...

That's an exageration I realize because even with my crossbow (a mediocre one), a good crossbowman can put all his bolts into the target's inner ring from 40 yards out. I'm not going to argue about the best shooters in the world because, ultimately, when you've reached the apex of buttery smooth equipment in both the longbow and crossbow worlds, there is still the difference between the manual release of the longbow vs. the trigger/nut arrangement of the crossbow.
Smoothness of release is the final determinant of the equipment's ultimate accuracy potential, and the longbow may just have the edge there. To appreciate this difference, however, you'd have to be one of the 20 or 50 best shooters in the world, so in the end, for most of us, the crossbow should be both easier to learn and more accurate (or at least as accurate) as the longbow.
 
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