Crosscut Saw Thread

trailtime · Feb 27, 2018

You won't get long loopy noodles from a small saw with small gullets in dry hardwood, especially with straight rakers. But if your filing is consistent, there should be a lot of short noodles of similar size. I was cutting green locust once with an Atkins 390 and the noodles kept rolling up like watch springs in the gullets.

Miller '72 · Feb 27, 2018

trailtime said:
You won't get long loopy noodles from a small saw with small gullets in dry hardwood, especially with straight rakers. But if your filing is consistent, there should be a lot of short noodles of similar size. I was cutting green locust once with an Atkins 390 and the noodles kept rolling up like watch springs in the gullets.

Great information thank you Trailtime.
I had consistent shape and size with some whiskers but not all whisker.
I will run her again tomorrow and then go thru checking if and or how many cutters are to short.

A17 · Feb 28, 2018

Picked up this 2 or 3 footer for $3.00. Now I can finally add to this thread.

Miller '72 · Feb 28, 2018

A17 said:
Picked up this 2 or 3 footer for $3.00. Now I can finally add to this thread.

Good deal! I like that the handle has 4 bolts.
I am green to Crosscuts and have not come across that tooth pattern before

phantomknives · Feb 28, 2018

Miller '72 said:
Good deal! I like that the handle has 4 bolts.
I am green to Crosscuts and have not come across that tooth pattern before

I believe that's crown pattern with 4 spikes, great american.with 3 and M with 2

Miller '72 · Feb 28, 2018

That's the Great American? I have only seen that pattern in the I.D. sketches...I will take a closer look.
I would like to find Great American pattern saw myself one day.

Thanks Phantomknives

trailtime · Feb 28, 2018

Looks to be more of a pruning saw, though big enough for crosscutting smaller rounds. Crosscut bucking saws will typically have holes for an auxiliary handle at the blade's toe and just in front of the D-handle. When sharp, those small teeth are easy to start in small diameter wood.

Square_peg · Feb 28, 2018

Definitely a pruning saw.

Miller '72 · Feb 28, 2018

Disston Crosscut Test Fun
...more a test of my filing for experience and comparison...

Elm

White Paper Birch

Easter White Pine

I would say that the whiskers are telling me that there are more than one cutter shorter than the rakers. They may be telling me more than that, or something completely different...There does seem to be a consistency in the majority of chips from each cutting.
Other than that the saw bites and starts smoothly and easily. Cuts straight thru very smoothly on each of the rounds, unfortunately I only have the smaller pine limbs for the Pine test and no oak or maple.

Jim Thode · Feb 28, 2018

Miller '72 said:
I managed to squeeze in just enough for a minimal test run...before my youngest boys school nurse called.

It was a nice high, bright, warm late morning sun

Back to the Warren Miller Video and Manual later...then back in the saw vise for refile, tomorrow if the sudden illness sweeping kindergarten is only an afternoon virus.
Can't wait to get back to the garage and Charlene

Looks like it is putting out some nice sized chunks. Probably the size of the cuttings and even the thickness of the little noodles would tell more then if it is pulling noodles or not. I think noodles are fun but over rated.
Jim

Jim Thode · Feb 28, 2018

Square_peg said:
Looks like a clean cut. Did it cut straight?

An interesting tidbit is that when single bucking, a properly sharpened peg and raker saw will cut a little to the left as it cuts down through the log. This is because the cutter directly in front of the raker is almost always on the left side and when single bucking there is more down pressure on the push stroke then on the pull stroke. This cutting to the left is not normally enough to cause a problem but a sawyer or filer should not be concerned if they see that. It is normal and there is nothing wrong with the saw.

For a similar reason you will start to see whiskers on one side of the noodle before seeing whiskers on both sides of the noodle. That is normal and just the nature of the beast.

Jim

Miller '72 · Feb 28, 2018

Jim Thode said:
Looks like it is putting out some nice sized chunks. Probably the size of the cuttings and even the thickness of the little noodles would tell more then if it is pulling noodles or not. I think noodles are fun but over rated.
Jim

Thank you for that sir. I do carried away thinking I need noodles, noodles, noodles

It sure is fun!...looks like fun

But to know if the saw is cutting well and efficiently are definetly my prime goal to grow and move forward. I greatly appreciate the feedback and advice. :thumbsup:

Miller '72 · Feb 28, 2018

Jim Thode said:
An interesting tidbit is that when single bucking, a properly sharpened peg and raker saw will cut a little to the left as it cuts down through the log. This is because the cutter directly in front of the raker is almost always on the left side and when single bucking there is more down pressure on the push stroke then on the pull stroke. This cutting to the left is not normally enough to cause a problem but a sawyer or filer should not be concerned if they see that. It is normal and there is nothing wrong with the saw.

For a similar reason you will start to see whiskers on one side of the noodle before seeing whiskers on both sides of the noodle. That is normal and just the nature of the beast.

Jim

Excellent information!

Thank you, I will be watching when cutting to look for that next time out.

trailtime · Feb 28, 2018

Looks like you're getting the saw filing basics accomplished. Next step is to tune your blade for better performance. When you point up your cutters, how much of a "dot" (unfiled flat spot which reflects light) do you leave? If you file completely past the dot, you have just shortened that cutter below the jointed height, which will encourage whiskers. When I file my cutters, I first back home them to guarantee clean flat steel. Then I profile them to the near final shape, leaving a dot a little bigger than the period on the end of a sentence. Then, I make one more pass with the hone to remove any filing burr. I then set the tooth, and if over by one or two thousandths, I'll back hone to the exact setting. This still leaves me with a small flat dot which supports my raker gauge for final cutting of the raker height. That done, I final file my points taking care not to file past the dot. For an absolute needle point, I'll glue a strip of 400g sandpaper to a wooden paint stirrer and carefully take the small dot down to near disappearance. This will also polish the face of your cutter. This might sound like a lot of extra stuff, but these final procedures go really fast and don't add much to the filing time.

Miller '72 · Feb 28, 2018

trailtime said:
Looks like you're getting the saw filing basics accomplished. Next step is to tune your blade for better performance. When you point up your cutters, how much of a "dot" (unfiled flat spot which reflects light) do you leave? If you file completely past the dot, you have just shortened that cutter below the jointed height, which will encourage whiskers. When I file my cutters, I first back home them to guarantee clean flat steel. Then I profile them to the near final shape, leaving a dot a little bigger than the period on the end of a sentence. Then, I make one more pass with the hone to remove any filing burr. I then set the tooth, and if over by one or two thousandths, I'll back hone to the exact setting. This still leaves me with a small flat dot which supports my raker gauge for final cutting of the raker height. That done, I final file my points taking care not to file past the dot. For an absolute needle point, I'll glue a strip of 400g sandpaper to a wooden paint stirrer and carefully take the small dot down to near disappearance. This will also polish the face of your cutter. This might sound like a lot of extra stuff, but these final procedures go really fast and don't add much to the filing time.

Thank you Trailtime for the encouragement.

Incredibly helpful feedback sir!
I was trying to follow a visual line when filing my cutters, filing each side to almost that halfway / center of the tip to allow for symmetrical sides leading to that apex.

What you described perfectly lays out what i was attempting, had misunderstood and warped into my own process.
Thanks for catching that and shedding light on that for me! Greatly appreciated.
Your description brings clarity to what i was trying to do...yet stumbling to understand everything as i applied what i was learning along the way.

All the reading and videos and pictures are great but it's the hands on and direct feedback I have been receiving that is most helpful and most encouraging.

Thank you Trailtime and Jim Thode, Square peg, Trailsawyer, phantomknives, rjankert, agent h, 300 and everyone else!

Now to decide to rejoint this saw and go again or move on to the next saw I have lined up for sharpening and grow with each experience, coming back to correct as i learn...

trailtime · Feb 28, 2018

Jim Thode has some good examples of illuminating and checking the dot on his website.

Miller '72 · Feb 28, 2018

trailtime said:
Jim Thode has some good examples of illuminating and checking the dot on his website.

Thank you I will need to get watching and pay close attention. So much to learn and that gives me much room for improvement...I hope.

Miller '72 · Mar 2, 2018

After some thought, I decided to move forward and dress the 48# plain tooth Disston I have.
-ALMA-

I had already cleaned the blade, so yesterday I took advantage of the weather and treated the handles and cleaned the gullets. Many of the gullets, more than half, were like this one...
BEFORE

AFTER

I have this very interesting Company Stamping with what may be the date it was in service, 2 • 26 • 25...perhaps??
Anyone else come across the S.S. Imp. Co.?

I was thinking the practice on the plain tooth cutters may help my filing to improve my "dot" filing and keeping the cutters from shortening below the rakers on my next peg and raker saw.
After this 48" Plain tooth, I have a 5' two man bucking saw plain tooth pattern I will dress.

Then I have two champion tooth 5' felling saws. One Atkins 48" and two more Disston 36"...all champion tooth. Perhaps by the end of the last saw filed I will have a handle on what i am doing right and what I need to do differently LOL!

Thanks to everyone for their feedback and advice
Thanks for looking :thumbsup:

trailtime · Mar 2, 2018

If you look at the tooth closest to the heel of that 48" Disston, you will see what the original tooth profile looked like. Most casual filers will not reprofile when sharpening their saws, as it's time consuming. But by not doing that, the teeth will become squatty. I'm guessing you could put a chainsaw file in the U between the two heel teeth, but that separation was absent from most of the others when you first started. The last plain tooth saw I filed, I cut all teeth to the same length and shape and used a round file to establish the bottom depth between the teeth. I also ran a wood screw into a small block of wood to use as a depth gauge to keep them all consistent.

A17 · Mar 2, 2018

After partially cleaning the pruning saw, it turns out its a craftsman. Only saw I've seen that has valid lifetime warranty.