Crosscut Saw Thread

[Trailsawyer]

Changing handles on a crosscut usually not an issue. In most early logging camps the sawyers had their own favorite handles, while the saws were provided by the company.
I would find or make up a pair of matching felling style handles!

 

[Fmont]

Changing handles on a crosscut usually not an issue. In most early logging camps the sawyers had their own favorite handles, while the saws were provided by the company.
I would find or make up a pair of matching felling style handles!

Would this be like hoop vs. western preference, or their own specific dowels for the western handles? Like a guy loved his own spruce dowel/handle so he swapped it in real quick when he was handed a western handled saw? Or he had his own 395, etc., and just used that? Sorry for all the questions, but this stuff is super interesting.

I wonder how many western handles (dowel part) were thrown away by relatives, etc., when sorting through relative's stuff. It'd just look like a stick with a hole through it That's a sad thought. I place a lot of value in tools that spent untold hours in a skilled hand. If only we could learn through osmosis

Sorry I'm sometimes unnecessarily long winded, gents!

 

[trailtime]

I've found a lot of odd wood used as handles including chair and table legs, tree branches, shovel handles, steel pipes... basically whatever was on hand and could fit when needed. Jim Those made a custom handle from a bent tree branch to mimic the ergonomics of a one-man D-handle.

 

[Fmont]

I recall that now. If he sees this I wonder if he favors it, or if it sees a little less use. Great idea, and I suppose the type of thing Trailsawyer was alluding to.

 

[Trailsawyer]

Would this be like hoop vs. western preference, or their own specific dowels for the western handles?

Sawyers would have a preference for a brand/model/style of handle - such as the J Sells/Disston, Atkins, Simonds, or many others, and then cut and shape the wood dowel to their liking.
When using tools for 10 or 12 hours a day, having them "fit" you and your style was as important as your boots! My father only spent one summer (1945) bucking with a crosscut before buying
his first chainsaw. I still have his favorite handles - a pair of Atkins No. 51's.

 

[Jim Thode]

I recall that now. If he sees this I wonder if he favors it, or if it sees a little less use. Great idea, and I suppose the type of thing Trailsawyer was alluding to.

My ergonomic handles are my go to handles for most all the sawing I do. I cut all my firewood and hit and miss trail clearing with a crosscut. If you are making a hundred cuts a day the shape of the handle does make a difference.

Reversed for underbucking:

More details at: https://pbase.com/jimthode/ergonomic_handle

Jim

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

So what are the most coveted handles?
Seems like I usually see those Simonds style and Disstons. (#119 I think.)

 

[Jim Thode]

So what are the most coveted handles?
Seems like I usually see those Simonds style and Disstons. (#119 I think.)

Sells handles or similar are my favorite because of the lack of a bolt on the back side.

This is a combination of Sells and a home made fitting that attaches to the saw:

This orientation works good for sawing close to the ground.

 

[Trailsawyer]

So what are the most coveted handles?
Seems like I usually see those Simonds style and Disstons. (#119 I think.)

As far as westen patterns, Simonds #395 handles seem to sell for the most $$$....... and they are a very good handle - but I think that the collectors are mostly responsible for that.
I would "vote" for J Sells handles as the most coveted by users. I see more Atkins #4's in use, probably because the are about the most durable?

 

[Fmont]

I've never even seen a J Sells apart from the pics here. Can't believe what handles go for on eBay. Everything is "Royal Chinook?" or "Royal Chinook style."

I'd love to get my hands on some J Sells. Beautiful looking hardware, and I've been using a crosscut enough this year I'd like to make up some custom grips.

 

[Agent_H]

I know it's rough but is this an incomplete Sells-style handle?

 

[Jim Thode]

I know it's rough but is this an incomplete Sells-style handle?

Yes that is along the same idea as a Sells handle. It has no bolt that interferes with hand placement on the back as a standard western handle does.

Here is another Sell with a short guard:

And an Atkins 52 that is similar but does not fit as many saws. A little different hole locations can interfere with the attachment of the #52

One disadvantage with the Sells type handles that I see frequently is loose handles. I don't think I have found one with a tight handle:

On all my users Sells handles I make a special effort to install the wood part of the handle so that they stay tight in all weather conditions. Without some care a handle can dry out and become loose in dry weather or storage conditions. My procedure is to only install the wood part when it is bone dry, in my case that means storing near the wood stove in the winter. Then working the handle so it is very tight in the metal fitting and I can just barely get it installed. Then my final step is to use some Swell Lock or straight auto antifreeze to swell the wood and prevent any drying or shrinking. I normally drill a hole down the center of the handle as well and dab some antifreeze around the outside. I have never had a handle loosen that I've did this process to.

Jim

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

Yes that is along the same idea as a Sells handle. It has no bolt that interferes with hand placement on the back as a standard western handle does.

Here is another Sell with a short guard:

And an Atkins 52 that is similar but does not fit as many saws. A little different hole locations can interfere with the attachment of the #52

One disadvantage with the Sells type handles that I see frequently is loose handles. I don't think I have found one with a tight handle:

On all my users Sells handles I make a special effort to install the wood part of the handle so that they stay tight in all weather conditions. Without some care a handle can dry out and become loose in dry weather or storage conditions. My procedure is to only install the wood part when it is bone dry, in my case that means storing near the wood stove in the winter. Then working the handle so it is very tight in the metal fitting and I can just barely get it installed. Then my final step is to use some Swell Lock or straight auto antifreeze to swell the wood and prevent any drying or shrinking. I normally drill a hole down the center of the handle as well and dab some antifreeze around the outside. I have never had a handle loosen that I've did this process to.

Jim

Thanks for the detailed information Jim!

 

[Fmont]

I have one that drops down a hoop rather than a pin/guard. So also not having the nut in the back. Unfortunately it's got a brazed repair and the wingnut has no wings. I haven't figured out the thread size yet, hope one of you can help. It's archaic.

 

[Trailsawyer]

I have one that drops down a hoop rather than a pin/guard. So also not having the nut in the back. Unfortunately it's got a brazed repair and the wingnut has no wings. I haven't figured out the thread size yet, hope one of you can help. It's archaic.

Lots of the old handles use a 7/16" 14tpi thread.....

 

[Fmont]

Oh God that's fantastic to know. Thank you, sir. I'll try that first.

 

[Square_peg]

Yes that is along the same idea as a Sells handle. It has no bolt that interferes with hand placement on the back as a standard western handle does.

Here is another Sell with a short guard:

And an Atkins 52 that is similar but does not fit as many saws. A little different hole locations can interfere with the attachment of the #52

One disadvantage with the Sells type handles that I see frequently is loose handles. I don't think I have found one with a tight handle:

On all my users Sells handles I make a special effort to install the wood part of the handle so that they stay tight in all weather conditions. Without some care a handle can dry out and become loose in dry weather or storage conditions. My procedure is to only install the wood part when it is bone dry, in my case that means storing near the wood stove in the winter. Then working the handle so it is very tight in the metal fitting and I can just barely get it installed. Then my final step is to use some Swell Lock or straight auto antifreeze to swell the wood and prevent any drying or shrinking. I normally drill a hole down the center of the handle as well and dab some antifreeze around the outside. I have never had a handle loosen that I've did this process to.

Jim

This stuff is priceless! Thanks, Jim.

 

[Square_peg]

Lots of the old handles use a 7/16" 14tpi thread.....

https://www.mcmaster.com/90866A150

Or another option is to make a larger heavier wingnut. You often find the wingnuts broken from somebody hammering on them, trying to keep them tight. A lock nut might help instead of hammering. But a bigger wider wingnut that was easier to tighten is another option. Check out the un-threaded wingnuts on this page.

https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-wing-nuts

 

[Jim Thode]

Lots of the old handles use a 7/16" 14tpi thread.....

Most western handles (including Atkins #52) use 7/16" - 14 thread. The Sells handle uses 1/2" - 13 thread. The 1/2" Malleable Iron wing nuts are pretty common but the 7/16" are harder to find. Someone told me where to get them but forgot now.

Edit:
Here is the info on a source for the malleable iron 7/16" - 14 wing nuts:
Malleable iron wing nut 7/16”-14 for most old crosscut saw handles.
Only source found is from the manufacture, Peerless Hardware, $50 minimum order.
Peerless Hardware #0-FG-700FM7 Wing (Thumb) Nut 7/16”-14 Malleable iron
https://www.peerlesshardware.com/wing-nuts.asp

 

[Fmont]

Wow! Reminds me of buying a plane to find out it's missing a nut, and that finding a replacement nut is going to cost me as much as the entire plane did lol

I only paid $50 for a great condition Craftsman perforated lance with the handle in question and a hoop handle included.

Think this is asking for something one off like you did with the 1/2" bolt. Seems like a lot of ways to skin this cat.



The handle in question. The previous owner also took an effort to keep the grip secure: