CruForge V tempering question

Cody Hofsommer

Cody Hofsommer

Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
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So I tried some CFV blades, and ran them with my Damascus blades. I had read some stuff on guys useing a lower then stated temps. They were suggesting 1475 with a little soak time, well that's what I have been using for my Damascus blades also, so I thought I would try it. I got a as quenched hardness on them of RhC 68. Pretty hard! At two rounds of tempering at 400 degrees, 65! I have been working my way up 15-20 degrees at a time, each for at least an hour. I'm at 515 now and still 62-63.

As for how I'm testing, Christmas came early. I got a new Grizzly benchtop tester. I am checking clean, scale and decarb free, flat steel. My tester blocks are spot on. I think it's accurate. My damscus behaved as expected. As quenched 65 and 415 degrees RhC 61.

Does this seem to make sense? What hardness should I shoot for, in a 4" hunter? I think I might post HT grind one and sharpen it and test it out.
 
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I've used quite a bit of it forged from the large 1 1/8 round stock and most normally temper my hunters twice @ 400.
I had breakfast with Jim Batson in Ohio one time, who basically said that CruV, when hardened, and after the extra vanadium gobbles up the excess carbon, you'll basically end up with 1084 with lots of vanadium carbides.
It has a notoriously bad reputation for being difficult to hand-sand because of all these vanadium carbides.
And I wonder if those could be effecting the RC reading?
Maybe.
I do know that even at a 350 temper, the hardness - according to Crucible - is 62, and a 400 temper should give you a 61.
I'm not even sure you can obtain 68 with CruV.
 
That's how I see it. If you use the 1475F temps....1084 with lots of vanadium carbides. Using 1530F....different ballgame. I tried both temps, 1475 with longer soak of course, and by far the 1530F was harder to hand sand. I don't know if that 1530F and "harder to hand sand" translates to better wear resistance at the cost of toughness and probably more RA. Love the stuff anyway.
 
Stuart, you and me2 conversations in the past is what lead me to this method.

Karl, I remember you telling me to get it hot and quench it in something wet, but with my new hardness tester, thiught I could be a little more scientific! Lol. I'm quite confiden that it was. 68 as quenched. But maybe that's not the same as 68 in other steels. The problem with having more info, is now you have to sort through more info!

To quote someone's sig line, "in theory, there is now difference in practice and in theory, in practice there is!" I wonder how many things turn out not what we thought, but have no way of knowing. I guess I thought that enough to spend $830 for a tester! I know that RhC isn't the end all of a knife, but it does give me another check.
 
The advice that I got from Dan Farr who was in on the creation of this stuff, was that if you treat it like 1084 and like the chart says with an austenizing temp of say close to 1500, you will get that 61 or so at 400 and 59 or so at 425. He said that at 59 it is tougher than a cheap steak and a bit easier to hand sand. I have stuck with tempering at 400 and using EDM stones. It also takes a retains and NASTY thin sharp edge at 61. basically I treat it temperature wise like I do 1084, but I soak it like I would W2. Knowing what we do now about lower temperature assenting of 52100, it might be interesting to try this stuff at 1450-1475 just to see what happens. After reading a lot of Mr. Cashen's stuff, i am now a bit hesitant to take any of the hyereutectic steels that we commonly use over 1500 or try to anneal them.
 
My forged cruv blade is 65rc after ht as: normalized + grain-refinement + 1465F 5 minute soak hardening + 350F tempered x 2@1hr. I've been using this knife in the shop, good edge stability - sharp & not chippy.
 
The quote - "Get it real hot and quench it in something wet" - came directly to me over the phone from Dan Farr, who designed the steel with one of Crucible's metallurgists.
In fact, I talked directly to that metallurgist and he told me he wanted to name the steel Cru-Farr-V. But the higher-ups did not want an outsider's name attached to one of their steel.
But that metallurgist still had his personal file on the steel in his desk with the name - "Cru-Farr-V" on the cover.

That heat treatment regimen was very tongue-in-cheek, but as simple as the steel is, it's not far from the truth.
Even just air-hardened, it will squeak a brand new drill bit.
 
Ok, so I ground the edge down to about .011 and sharpened it up. I've cut 100 cuts through 3/8 sisal rope, chopped into a pine knot, stuck it tip first into a pine board and pushed it sideways a couple dozen times, and the edge or tip is no worse for wear. It grinds slow, that's for sure! I think it's pretty though and pretty wear resistent. I think it's a winner, not sure if it the best it can be, but no slouch either.
 
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