CS or SS for a long term bushcraft trip and why?

I'm more of a stone person. the CS knives i do have i never like waiting for natural patinas to form, especially if surface rust appears first, so i normally force patinas, i used boiling vinegar on my nessmuk but it looked bad and it ruined the handle, after that preferred mustard or lemon juice. i gotten into a habit of wiping dry my knife each time i use it, whether or not the job was dry wood and kindling or wet. i used my case Trapper CV on some fish belly at a restaurant last night and wiped it clean before putting it away, the mustard patina kept it well enough.
 
I currently live in the North East/Mid Atlantic so no stranger to summer humidity. I have never had a carbon steel blade rust on me. I keep it clean and dry, and I wipe it down after use. If you are concerned wipe a little mineral oil on it after you use it. Nothing wrong with stainless though, as one of my favorite field knives is a Fallkniven F1 with VG-10.
 
bikerector said:
It seems many bushcrafter website and books call-out carbon steel as the end-all be-all because of ease to sharpen and the ability to throw a better spark or to use to create a spark with a rock. Personally, I don't find stainless hard to sharpen at all, unless it's a very high hardness SS but you probably don't want those varieties anyways. CS is just super easy to sharpen, most of the time.

I prefer some of the tried and tested SS. 440C has actually been a surprise for toughness, sharpens well and holds a really nice edge. Sandvik 12c27, 13c26, or 14c28 (and whatever letter goes after the 2nd number) and AEB-l are also nice. I believe AEB-L and 13c26 are supposed to be the same. 12c27 is what's in the stainless mora's and that has been on the soft side but sharpens nearly as well as carbon steel and maintenance is simple, wash it with water and put it away. I can't get that stuff to stain.

I have a camp knife in CPM-M4 that has been pretty sweet. The edge holds forever and I'm comfortable with it for a long weekend trip because I know it will hold it's edge the whole time but I haven't taken it on longer trips because I know it's hard as heck and sharpening could get interesting, filing a 90-degree spine on it was time consuming. I do carry a diamond stick from buck, the flipstick, so I know I can sharpen it, it just takes longer. The flip stick cleans up the AEB-L, CS, and 440C in a hurry.

Otherwise, my chopper/big knife is generally CS but I have a big 440C that I've beat on pretty well and it has surprised me with it's toughness, I won't baton logs with it but I'll use it with smaller pieces for kindling without problem. My newest big knives to get rid of that lack of confidence is a ratweiler and a BK4, which do much better in the wood splitting if I leave the axe home. Most of the wood I work with is dead and dry in my area... and a ton of ash from the ash borer infestation that kills a lot of trees.

I've come to the point a well designed and built knife (HT, grind, geometry) out-weigh materials, but that doesn't stop me from getting the nicer materials when I can. I will say that a good 52100 has been a favorite for hard use, both in hawks/hatchets and in big blades. 5" and under and I prefer SS but won't shy away from CS since there are a lot of nicely designed CS blades out there. D2 and 440C are favorites for value but so far sandvik and AEB-L have been good to me in the woods, though I haven't chipped a knife in quite a while either. I have a BM contego folder in M4 I've been testing out and it's been doing pretty well, very blade heavy for such a small knife so chops better than other small blades (far from ideal and not recommended from folders but the testing is what I care about, bought well-used so no worries on beating on it).

Sorry for the lengthy post, I got carried away.
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a lot of useful information, i appreciate the time. i have a granfors bruks axe that i would want to pair with a bark or something else rather, but i would also want a skinning knife for food prep/animal purposes. only problem is i live in cali and all of the parks/land here is protected so there will be no chopping with the exception of wood found on the ground.
 
JokersFaceLifter said:
only problem is i live in cali and all of the parks/land here is protected so there will be no chopping with the exception of wood found on the ground.
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I usually stick to stuff fallen on the ground as well. Lately, I've found myself excited when there's a really windy day because it means I get to go find new deadfall to beat on. Realistically though, most of that is dead and dry and a saw makes more sense... saw are just less fun.

From the sounds of it, the axe may be unnecessary and the big knife, little knife, saw might be a good approach. Much of that can come into the same weight of an axe depending on which size you've gone. I have come to dislike most hatchets but I do really like my hawk from Hunter Knives which has a very long cutting surface and works well as a big knife for similar tasks. Finally re-wrapped the handle and need to flatten out the sharp beard as that's an unnecessary hazard for me but the beard does make a nice hook for picking stuff up and moving it around if I don't want to touch it, sticky, too lazy to bend over, or otherwise.

This is my first 52100 tool and was really impressed with it.
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I want to make sure I'm clear with my comments, carry what brings you joy. Don't stop carrying the gransfors bruks because of my comments, I'm just stating my opinion of what I would do with the environment you describe. Really, I usually bring more tools than needed if I don't have far to travel just because I like to play with options but there is a different fulfilment from the limitations of options and getting more creative and capable with those limitations. The big knife & baton vs. axe was a big change for me, but I have found a well ground axe can serve a lot of the purposes of a knife too.
 
As much as I love carbon steel, I would have to go stainless for an extended bush craft trip. One less thing to worry about.
That said, D2 would probably work well.
 
If you're actually using your knife most surface corrosion will be removed from contact with whatever you're cutting. Concerns about corrosion are overblown. Bring a rag to wipe the knife dry before storage.

If you're concerned about the edge then polish the bevels to around 1200 grit. Polished surfaces are much more corrosion resistant than rougher surfaces. I have an ESEE 4 with bevels polished to 1000 grit that doesn't see much use. It's been sitting in a box in my closet for probably 2 years without any oil. There's not even a hint of corrosion. I check it every so often and it's still sharp and corrosion free.
 
[IMG said:
https://i.imgur.com/fFlZSkbl.jpg[/IMG]

I want to make sure I'm clear with my comments, carry what brings you joy. Don't stop carrying the gransfors bruks because of my comments, I'm just stating my opinion of what I would do with the environment you describe. Really, I usually bring more tools than needed if I don't have far to travel just because I like to play with options but there is a different fulfilment from the limitations of options and getting more creative and capable with those limitations. The big knife & baton vs. axe was a big change for me, but I have found a well ground axe can serve a lot of the purposes of a knife too.
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interesting axe, of course, i eventually learned to do, believe, carry, and perform regardless of the comments and choices of words of people here or otherwise, but its good to see other's spin on things.
 
Fanglekai said:
If you're actually using your knife most surface corrosion will be removed from contact with whatever you're cutting. Concerns about corrosion are overblown. Bring a rag to wipe the knife dry before storage.

If you're concerned about the edge then polish the bevels to around 1200 grit. Polished surfaces are much more corrosion resistant than rougher surfaces. I have an ESEE 4 with bevels polished to 1000 grit that doesn't see much use. It's been sitting in a box in my closet for probably 2 years without any oil. There's not even a hint of corrosion. I check it every so often and it's still sharp and corrosion free.
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im in the process of creating a weight-conscious carbon steel care kit on my merry adventures, it is sad but true that the concerns for rust on CS have been blown out of proportion, which is why the companies that produce SS over CS are 12-1 in my opinion, my local REI store got rid of their CS opinels and replaced them with the SS version, i asked the sales lady why and she said people were returning the CS due to rust, she said one knife was so corroded there was orange-red crust everywhere.. probably left it out in the rain or something
i guess the only real concern with CS is water and moisture, so long as both knife and sheath are dry the only other thing you may want to do is give er' a quick oil wipe weekly or bi-weekly then she's all good to go
 
Groundhogsniper said:
As much as I love carbon steel, I would have to go stainless for an extended bush craft trip. One less thing to worry about.
That said, D2 would probably work well.
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if i were to go for stainless i wouldn't use a blade that literally said "stainless" maybe N690 or S35VN which if I'm correct only has 1.4% carbon and 14% chromium, thats a lot of rust/stain resistance there while being an excellent steel, if not pricy af
 
JokersFaceLifter said:
eek, sorry for the delay, i gave up on "rambo sized" knives which is why, although id like a tops bob, I'm not quite sure id ever need a tank of the knife, also looked at helle, and bark river, which are atm out of my price range, i like the bark river gunny in 3v, also looked at tops puuko, scandi grinds are every where :p
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As much fun as it is to have a giant knife, I must admit, it's mostly unnecessary. I carry a Tops bob almost daily, if you get one don't expect a scandi grind of any form. It is a flat saber grind with a convexed secondary bevel. I thinned my secondary out a considerable bit but I left it convex. The only reason it looks like a scandi online is because the primary grind is left uncoated. Still an outstanding knife in my opinion. If you could find the extra 80 bucks or so I would definitely recommend the Gunny 3V. I think the Gunny is an exceptional all around knife. Good luck buying just one ;)
 
JokersFaceLifter said:
if i were to go for stainless i wouldn't use a blade that literally said "stainless" maybe N690 or S35VN which if I'm correct only has 1.4% carbon and 14% chromium, thats a lot of rust/stain resistance there while being an excellent steel, if not pricy af
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N690 and S35VN are both classified as stainless steels.
 
Go stainless and go Elmax, get a Scandinavian grind for ease of sharpening in the field and a fallkniven dc4 to maintain the edge. I highly recommend the Enzo trapper. I just got one in Elmax after using one in D2 (also great) but Elmax sharpens easier in my experience.

*edit* I for got the "why".... because edge retention is key for working with a knife all day Elmax gives you that while being tough (for a stainless steel). I'd rather sharpen after a days work or so than stop what I'm doing because my edge is gone.
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Spikediesel said:
Go stainless and go Elmax, get a Scandinavian grind for ease of sharpening in the field and a fallkniven dc4 to maintain the edge. I highly recommend the Enzo trapper. I just got one in Elmax after using one in D2 (also great) but Elmax sharpens easier in my experience.

*edit* I for got the "why".... because edge retention is key for working with a knife all day Elmax gives you that while being tough (for a stainless steel). I'd rather sharpen after a days work or so than stop what I'm doing because my edge is gone.
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i always thought microtech had elmax steel on monopoly lockdown, i heard good things about the enzo trapper, but i reckon if I'm going to put 100+ on a knife why not safe a little more and go for something made of CPM 3V or something, just a thought
 
JerryRig said:
As much fun as it is to have a giant knife, I must admit, it's mostly unnecessary. I carry a Tops bob almost daily, if you get one don't expect a scandi grind of any form. It is a flat saber grind with a convexed secondary bevel. I thinned my secondary out a considerable bit but I left it convex. The only reason it looks like a scandi online is because the primary grind is left uncoated. Still an outstanding knife in my opinion. If you could find the extra 80 bucks or so I would definitely recommend the Gunny 3V. I think the Gunny is an exceptional all around knife. Good luck buying just one ;)
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I'm still a noobie on the grind terminologies and the differences between them, but ill get around to researching them, I'm sort of burnt out on the scandi grinds, only cause thats all I'm ever running into, maybe its because i keep looking at the same companies, i use to think scandi grinds were good for skinning due to the extremely thin edge, but i guess its ideal for wood work and basic utility. I gave up the romantic idea that there is a one-stop-shop knife for your "do it all" chores in the great outdoors, so its better to have two with you, one for wood/utility other for food prep/hunting
 
JokersFaceLifter said:
i always thought microtech had elmax steel on monopoly lockdown, i heard good things about the enzo trapper, but i reckon if I'm going to put 100+ on a knife why not safe a little more and go for something made of CPM 3V or something, just a thought
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3v is no doubt incredible steel but the beauty of the Enzo is buying the bare blade for ~$79 in Elmax. 3v prices are thu the roof right now and after watching some torture videos I don’t think you’d be giving anything up going with Elmax in a “real world bushcraft/camping situation”
 
I've never had any problems with carbon steel and only use ss on pocket knives.CS is cheaper, tougher, easy to sharpen, overall just easy to maintain in the field. Never had any problems with rust (only patina, but that's not a problem). With that said, nowadays you can find ss that will fit your needs. I wouldn't worry one bit using a machete made out of 12c27 (high toughness) and if you look for edge retention, there are plenty of ss out there suited for that. Basically, you'd have to decide if paying more for stain resistence is worth it to you.
 
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