CS Recon Tanto vs Birch log. Winner: Birch log

FoxholeAtheist

FoxholeAtheist

Joined
Apr 7, 2003
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So, after reading about batoning here, I decided to try it while having an evening campground trip with the family tonight. I was making my first attempt on a birch log, using another piece of birch for a baton, when the knife broke at the blade-handle junction. I don't have a digital camera, but I'll try to get pics of it at some point.

I don't know whether to fault the knife or my own lack of skill on this one. I had held onto the handle until the blade was solidly into the log, then was just hitting the back of the blade to drive it all the way into the log, at which point I was going to grab the handle again and start batoning the projecting end of the blade. The blade was not yet all the way into the log when the handle just snapped off. (I was lightly holding onto it at the time just to balance the log.)

The break is nice and clean, no chips or shards missing.
 
That's a bummer. Between this and that Recon Scout thread, I'm going to have to take all my favorite CS fixed blades out into the woods and pound the snot out of them to make sure! So far I have only really abused my Trailmaster, so I know it is good, but this is a shame. Can you see any cracks or faults at the site of the break?

I hope that their CS dept takes care of you, they should!
 
Larry, I appreciate your subtle and heartfelt sorrow. :D

Sodak, I don't see any cracks or anything near the break, looks like a clean break to me. I've had this knife for over 5 years, which is CS's warranty on their fixed blades, so I won't bother contacting them about this.

Rat Fink, the ricasso is just a hair over 1 1/8 inches wide, and the tang is 19/32". That's 1.125" vs .593", if you prefer decimal. The thickness appears to be the same 3/16" or so that the blade is. (I don't have a micrometer, so all of these measurements are via eyeball next to a steel ruler.)
 
Um... I really don't know much about metal fracturing, but I'll try to explain this as best I can without pictures.

The place where the spine of the knife dips down to meet the tang is about 1/8" closer to the tip of the knife than the place where the edge side dips down. The break runs from just where the flat part of the tang starts on the edge side to about 1/8" up from the place where the flat part of the tang starts on the spine side. In my completely novice opinion, it looks like it started on the edge side.

I might have access to a digital camera tomorrow, and if I do, I can send pics to interested parties in a couple of days. If someone wants to host and/or post them, that would be fine with me.

If anyone is interested, I would also be willing to cut the Kraton off of the tang and take pictures of that.
 
A knife-breaker...Dang...It looks like we have another Cliff Stamp "in training".:D.:D.
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
I don't know whether to fault the knife or my own lack of skill on this one.
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It is a problem with the knife, you can baton to split wood with very slim knives. The most you should expect is edge damage on a very hard knot.

-Cliff
 
I think Cliff's right - your technique was probably not at fault. I seem to recall in the Recon Scout debacle it was mentioned that the top of the blade, being squared off, causes a stress riser. If CS would round over the top a little the knives could probably take batoning better.
 
Ebb, batoning into the end of the wood.

Note to anyone who wants to try this: Either show your wife images of batoning before you try it, or don't do it with her around. Otherwise, you might very well be accused of doing stupid things with a knife if it breaks. :D

Um... hypothetically.
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
The place where the spine of the knife dips down to meet the tang is about 1/8" closer to the tip of the knife than the place where the edge side dips down. The break runs from just where the flat part of the tang starts on the edge side to about 1/8" up from the place where the flat part of the tang starts on the spine side. In my completely novice opinion, it looks like it started on the edge side.
Click to expand...
Gotta question: where the tang meets the wider blade, is the inside corner sharp and square, or rounded?

Someone else here busted a supposedly tough knife like you did, and the culprit was a sharp corner under the guard where the tang met the blade. In engineering terms, a sharp inside corner is a "stress riser", a place where stresses are concentrated, and where cracks can form in even the toughest materials.

Any knife can fail in batoning, if they have a sharp corner there. The transition from tang to blade should be radiused, but some manufacturers try to save money by cutting it sharp, because it's easier. And because it's usually hidden under the guard, it's hard for us users to tell!

stress-riser.gif
 
Foxhole:
man, that totally bites. On the upside, it's a lot better to learn now, when the stakes are low (a bit of lost pride in front of your family and a lost knife), instead of when you really do need it to not fail...

As to why the blade failed, there's little doubt in my mind it's due to the manufacturing process. I am learning to make knives, along with my bro and step-dad, and we've had some good results. One starter book we've acquired is Wayne Goddard's "The Joy of Knifemaking". In that book, he details desireable and undesireable traits in a knife tang. The major feature you don't want a knife's tang to have is a squared-off transition, just as the picture that Gryffin posted illustrates. The pic of "Bad" is exactly so. This shape can lead to stress fractures in heat-treating which probably won't show up until subjected to lots of stress or repeated use... enter your Recon Tanto...

Your knife should not have done this; a couple months ago, I took my Greco X-Plorer and my step-dad's self-made, 7.5" bladed bowie and we did a lot of batoning with both. Both are full-tanged knives, by the way. Both knives went through the multiple poundings with absolutely no signs of stress cracks, breaks, or bends. This testing illustrated Goddard's afore-metioned advice - straight cuts on blade tangs are bad, smooth transitions are good. Cold Steel really should take that to heart...
 
Stormdrane said:
Hmm, what does your sister look like?:cool:
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH!!!!

Let him find his own fat BIL. LOL

FHA
Go beat the Hell out of your SwampRats and tell us who won. CS is getting kind of predictable in this regard. (Yeah, how many HAVEN'T bought into the CS hype?)

Thank God your a$$ wasn't on the line rather than just looking silly. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

Rob
 
While I am no big fan of CS I did not think they had gotten so bad that their products could no longer stand up to hard use. The only Cold Steel knife I have anymore is 1 of the original Recon Tantos that they put out in the mid 80's and it is a good knife.

Look at it this way

Good excuse to get a new Knife :)
 
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