Curious about damascus.

gajinoz

gajinoz

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Sep 2, 2003
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Having a rather curious nature I'm always wanting to know things.

Maybe some of you clever knife makers can answer this one.

What substance(s) and or method(s) are used to enhance the lines forming the patterns you see on damascus blades?


I've seen blades with very faint lines and some with very dark lines. I'm assuming this is deliberate.

Thanks.



.
 
My Australian friend and colleague ... I am astonished that the knifemakers have not yet replied.

Interim reply, based on "damascus" I had to make for "lab purposes" and based on swords I've purchased:
-You can choose steels (or just metals) with greater or lesser contrast.
-You can use a variety of etchants, some of which create greater contrast.
-You can use "additional chemicals" that can also change the contrast.
-You can choosen the number of folds and the layer thickness to create bolder or less bold patterns.

And, I'm sure we'll hear more and much cooler approaches when the real experts arrive.:)
 
Thanks OP, that pretty much covers the basics. I'd be interested to hear from the experts about what chemicals might be used.

Also, can older damascus be "revived". By this I mean, if I clean up an old blade by polishing it or even lightly sanding it, can I restore the line enhancements?

If you don't ask, you'll never know. :)
 
Simplified answer:
The two or more steels used to make the laminate are selected so they will etch to different colors Carbon content and alloy ingredients make some dark, some gray, and some lighter. They will also etch to different depths, too.
Once the blade is finish sanded and all is done ( prior to handle work and fittings), the blade is cleaned and immersed in a solution of some etchant. Usually it is Ferric Chloride, but can be any acid, and some other chemicals. Once the etch has "cut" to the desired amount the blade is neutralized, and given a final light sanding to brighten the high places, while leaving the slightly lower areas dark.
Stacy

Yes, the pattern can be restored after sanding. Just work it with the etchant. Even vinegar will work...just slower.
Stacy
 
Just to expand on what's been said....

As mentioned, the mix of steels will have a great deal to do with the pattern displayed. Different steels etch at different speeds or color differently in the etch. This will produce your contrasting lines. Two very similar steels in a damascus billet will probably not create much contrast in your pattern.

A longer etch may produce a more pronounced pattern with more structure as the faster etching steel is eaten away leaving ridges of the slower etching steel.

Also mentioned earlier, a high number of layers will produce a more tightly packed pattern than a fewer number of layers, so often a fewer number of layers will appear much more bold/obvious, though many prefer the refined look of higher layer damascus.

--nathan
 
Though far, far, far from a knifemaker ... I have used ferric chloride as has been mentioned above. And, if I remember right, cobalt chloride.

I'd sure like to hear, from these real experts, what other chemical compounds they've used to etch damascus.
 
muriatic acid
acetic acid ( vinegar)
potassium Hydroxide ( lye)
Aqua regia ( nitric/hydrochloric mix)
uric acid ( urine)
 
I'm only begining to play with damascus... I've only used vinegar to etch. and found it wanting... hoping to score some ferric chloride soon, and I'm scared to handle any of Stacy's Uric acid etched damascus...(:confused:why's this knife smell so funny?:confused:) Most of your brights in damascus will be a steel with about 2% nickle content, such as 15n20, L6, 4350... the dark can be a plain or complex steel like 1084/1095/W2/O1/4150 such and so on...

Jason
 
:rolleyes:Thank you, gentlemen.:)

On behalf of Gajinoz, who is probably busy over there on the other side of the world.
 
Another aspect of etching damascus and the resulting visual's; hardened steels etch faster than unhardened steel.

Damascus that is edge quenched or clay hardened is easily recognized after the etch is completed, because the hardened section has a deeper and more apparent depth to it.



Best regards, Fred
 
Thanks to all for the great info. I have a damascus knife that I want to have a bit of a play around with, this gives me a good start.
 
You used to be able to get Ferric Chloride at Radio Shack. It is a very commonly used pc board etchant. You can also score some at Fry's electronics. You can get it in powdered form on eBay as well.
 
Since we are noobing it up here. Can someone tell me which steel darkens say in a 15n20 and 1084 lamination?
 
Edro20 said:
Since we are noobing it up here. Can someone tell me which steel darkens say in a 15n20 and 1084 lamination?
Click to expand...

It would be the 1084 since the 15m20 has nickle in it, it would tend to be the part of the laminate that appears shiny.
 
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