Curious case of American Broad Axes with long handles

[Square_peg]

What strikes me more now than ever from your file is the sheer numbers involved, 110 million ties p/year, 60,000-70,000 tie hacks in the USA, (highly exploited, of course), and, that this handwork was going on into, what, the 1950s it seems? This work clearly out-pacing in almost every way other hewing activity. It makes me think that the broadaxes seen today are axes predominantly intended for tie hacking and that that work must have had a big, even determining influence on the basic forms of these axes.

Well, yes. That was my point. Perhaps I should have been more direct about it. A railroad tie did not need a fine finish. It didn't even need the square edges that a barn beam would need. A quicker sloppier method of hewing would have been sufficient. The faster the better since it was piece work.

A longer handle and a more powerful swing removes wood more quickly but less accurately. But that's just fine for a rail road tie.

And you'd want a finer finish on a house beam than a barn beam. A beam in a grand public building might have had the further finish of a hand plane. But you'd want the beam hewn pretty accurately before you resorted to planes - it's less effort that way.

A shorter-handled lighter broad axe, perhaps with a swept bit would, would make it easier to create a fine fiinish.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

It definitely could be the case that the standard, 6x8" & 7x9" was not literal and that being embedded like they were, it was no problem to compensate for some variation from one tie to the next in a way that didn't require the precision necessary when joinery work was involved. Then I guess you just better hope that as a tie hack bringing in your ties you keep up a good relation with one doing the grading. More likely is that these hackers learned pretty soon to be accurate in their dimensioning, that grading system having its own inbuilt mechanisms for keeping discipline, brutal, subjective and as prone to abuse as they may have been. We can safely assume that the margins of difference were pretty small, I think, much would depend on the production relationship - how dependent were the railroad boses on the provision of ties vs how much the laborers relied on the income, the age-old struggle.
Then it leaves the quality of finish. I find that the more emphatic you go at it with the axe, depending on that axe, the better the quality of the finish is, wood fibers more cleanly severed, greater regularity of the strikes, deeper penetration. Whether there is necessarily a trade-off between force of action and accuracy I don't know, particularly given the constant nature of the tie hacking work which at least occurred continually, weeks on end it appears.

Not sure were the term Tie Hack came from but if someone called you a hack it meant you didn't do good work. Connection there?

It seems clear that this work was not the most prestigious, the ones doing it pretty low down on the ladder of things. I don't know though if it had anything to do with the quality of their work, it's possible.

 

[Yankee Josh]

I have a really old dictionary in my living room. Wasn't aware of all the different meanings of the word! f you see here under "logging" it says "to hew". There's a bunch of other interesting definitions too.

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

I confess to not reading all of these posts so excuse me if it has been covered. But these tie hacks were working pretty close to the ground.

Valid point. Haft shaped this way gave the option to hack from ground level. Toe saver pattern ? There had to be time saving benefit for choosing riskier method.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/keen-kutter-12-broad-axe

 

[garry3]

Valid point. Haft shaped this way gave the option to hack from ground level. Toe saver pattern ? There had to be time saving benefit for choosing riskier method.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/keen-kutter-12-broad-axe

Do we have a haft like that being shown in use?

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

Do we have a haft like that being shown in use?

The haft in my post is severely bent upward but it seems it was used the same way like in videos posted by Ernest
https://bladeforums.com/threads/cur...axes-with-long-handles.1648686/#post-18857380

 

[Ernest DuBois]

A handle that way would be more suitable for work on wood where the worker encounters plenty of knots. It's safe to assume, with that long handle, the work was in a low position so then, the edge angle opened up like that, the action could easily be adjusted to a more or less perpendicular relation to the grain for minimizing tear-out around the knot where the fiber direction switches 180°. Around knots you must either reverse direction or cut across grain.

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

Well, when reading about Plumb's and TT's special analysis steel (Plumb/TT) one thing has caught my attention.
Assuming that in 1939 most of Broad Axes were destined for railroad tie hacking, what was the benefit of having a broad axe with hardened poll?

 

[A17]

The benefit was that when an idiot used it as a hammer, the poll wouldn’t mushroom and interfere with it’s hewing abilities.

 

[junkenstien]

Log dogs maybe

 

[Square_peg]

The benefit was that when an idiot used it as a hammer, the poll wouldn’t mushroom and interfere with it’s hewing abilities.

Log dogs maybe

Both good answers. I think A17's was more common than Junkenstien's but you know both happened.

Shit happens when you're working in the real world. Sometimes it means you have to grab the tool at hand and abuse it. Nice to have tools that can take it.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

what was the benefit of having a broad axe with hardened poll?

Good question.

The benefit was that when an idiot used it as a hammer, the poll wouldn’t mushroom and interfere with it’s hewing abilities.

So instead of a mushroomed poll you get a buckled eye,as it appears you are so aware?

Log dogs maybe

Log dogs go in, but must come out too. How do you do that with your axe?

Sometimes it means you have to grab the tool at hand and abuse it.

 

[A17]

Yes I am so aware, but if the eye has a haft filling it, theoretically it will be harder to buckle.

 

[npace]

Some documentation that lets us see there are differences in the technique and set-up between squaring lumber and squaring up ties with broadaxes

That older B&W film showing the (long) handle with swell and the swinging technique also suggests the logic of having it there.
Long handle is no indication the work was carried out standing a top the log and parallels with the Japanese technique are improbable for other reasons, rather that the work was done in the woods low to the ground to minimize lifting and the need to pack around trestles.

Ernest, where did you find these videos? The hacking a railroad tie video is in Eminence Missouri, Shannon county. 30 miles from where I live. Very cool!

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Ernest, where did you find these videos? The hacking a railroad tie video is in Eminence Missouri, Shannon county. 30 miles from where I live. Very cool!

Then this whole channel should be informative for you when you live nearby, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEoznxNksuj2pe7NxwkJeg

 

[jake pogg]

what was the benefit of having a broad axe with hardened poll?

That particular Keen kutter is advertised as being a one-piece forging from hardenable steel.
Possibly it was heated and quenched entirely as a unit,and then temper drawn on the sides of eye only.They being thinner would come to higher heat soonest,leaving enough hardness still in the thicker,chunkier poll.
Just an idea,but it'd probably save time/energy to do it that way,+ it sounds nice,like some added value-Hardened Poll!

 

[Square_peg]

Shit happens when you're working in the real world. Sometimes it means you have to grab the tool at hand and abuse it. Nice to have tools that can take it.

Let me give you an example. The fully burdened rate for one of our carpenters is a little over $90/hr. Last month one was replacing a threshold at one of our outlying buildings. A lump in the concrete was interfering with the installation. He didn't have a cold chisel with him but he had a $15 wood chisel which he abused chipping concrete. He saved an hour long drive for a cold chisel by abusing a $15 wood chisel. Net gain $75 and the chisel was still sharpenable.

 

[Square_peg]

Log dogs go in, but must come out too. How do you do that with your axe?

Keeping in mind that good log dogs have their points formed perpendicular to each other (so that each end enters the wood parallel to the grain) I knock the end of the dog that is in the log being hewn back and forth with the poll of an axe. It quickly comes loose. Then I simply lever up the other end, rocking it back and forth a few times until it also pops out easily.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Let me give you an example. The fully burdened rate for one of our carpenters is a little over $90/hr. Last month one was replacing a threshold at one of our outlying buildings. A lump in the concrete was interfering with the installation. He didn't have a cold chisel with him but he had a $15 wood chisel which he abused chipping concrete. He saved an hour long drive for a cold chisel by abusing a $15 wood chisel. Net gain $75 and the chisel was still sharpenable.

Keeping in mind that good log dogs have their points formed perpendicular to each other (so that each end enters the wood parallel to the grain) I knock the end of the dog that is in the log being hewn back and forth with the poll of an axe. It quickly comes loose. Then I simply lever up the other end, rocking it back and forth a few times until it also pops out easily.

Really, I'm overwhelmed by your pragmatisms Square_Pegs

 

[npace]

Deleted.