Current 110s: Less "clip" than old ones?

I get by pretty well with a SAK when I spread the peanut butter from an MRE onto a cracker or bread.
 
Doug S said:
I get by pretty well with a SAK when I spread the peanut butter from an MRE onto a cracker or bread.
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You aren't alone.

I've been backpacking regularly and seriously since about 1980. Over the years, I can't recall a single backpacking store that didn't or doesn't carry SAKs. They're still there very solidly, but now they're side by side with a selection of multi-tools, almost always Leatherman, and occasionally Gerber. As much as I love Buck, I don't think they have a realistic shot of displacing SAKs or Leathermans.

But, I've noticed a big change in the past 10 years or so - single blade locking folders!

Most backpacking stores have 2 knife displays. The first is a set of plastic wrapped knives hanging from a display prices typically ranging for $25 to $50 (with the exception of the big Leathermen). The second is a glass display which usually holds more expensive or bigger knives. In years past, this display case would hold the more expensive 50 tool monstrosities that Victorinox makes and a huge selection of multi-tools). In more recent years, these glass cases tend to carry more mid range locking folders with names like Cold Steel, CRKT and Benchmade. It's also much more common to see the Victorinox Trekkers, which have longer locking blades and have been around for a very long time but were rarely seen in backpacking stores in years past. And now, Gerber is making a big splash with the Bear Grylis line of knives.

My conclusion is that backpackers are more willing to go with a locking folder with blades in the 2.75" to 4" range (perhaps backed up by a small SAK or multi-tool).

So, where is Buck, the company that legitimized the locking folder?

Eastern Mountain Sports is something like the REI of the north-east. They carry a small number of Bucks, including the Buck X-tract (good move imo) and the Ecolite 112. The Ecolite 112 is priced just right and looks beautiful in the case. IMO, it holds it's own against any other knife one is likely to find in stores like this. More to the point, it has the look and feel of a substantial quality knife in way that the Buck Bantams and Bucklite Max lines just don't have (they're lower price point knives, so that's expected).

But, from what I can tell talking to the staff in these stores, the Ecolite 112 doesn't sell well. It is the *ONLY* knife there with a hunting style clip point.

It's just amazing to me. The Victorinox SAK and Leatherman have, rightfully so, become icons. The Buck 110/112 is also an icon. And judging from the lack of selection, Buck can't figure out how to sell that icon to the backpacking and climbing crowd. IMO, they should produce the Ecolite 110/112 drop-point. And they should call it that.
 
It's just possible that Buck isn't interested in competing in that market. Some years ago they introduced the Bucktool to compete with the Leatherman and others, but it seems to have failed. The same can be said for their foray into the "gadget knife" market with the Swiss Buck.

They do have some aimed at that crowd such as the X-Tract, Flashpoint, and several others that have been discontinued, but I'd bet than none are or were huge sellers. Buck seems to have picked the demographics that they're aiming at with their large assortment of hunting, everyday and tactical lines and seem to be constantly adding to those lines.

Quote: "But, from what I can tell talking to the staff in these stores, the Ecolite 112 doesn't sell well. It is the *ONLY* knife there with a hunting style clip point."

I'm curious, did the staff say that the reason they didn't sell well was because of the clip blade?

I don't think one knife company can be everything to everyone. From what I can see, Case doesn't even try as hard as Buck does, and they are another iconic American brand.
 
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Plumberdv, I didn't mean to suggest that I think Buck should try to compete with SAKs or Leathman. I'm somewhat ambivalent about the X-tract series. No comment on that one.

I think you're right about Buck (correctly) focusing everyday and tactical knives (along with hunting) but this is exactly my confusion too. Seeing an increase in locking folders in backpacking stores is the big change I notice over the past 10 years or so. Prior to that, it was mostly SAKs and Leatherman tools. Judging from the expensive Coldsteel and Benchmades I'm seeing along with the ubiquitous CRKT and Gerbers, it would seem that backpackers and hikers have an appetite for folding lockers.

I think (and I could be super-off base on this) is that one thing people shopping in backpacking stores want is brand assurance. Most folks shopping in these stores are neophytes (used to sell retail in these and ski/bike shops). Brands that have "office buzz" do well, which is why North Face and Patagonia always sell. They have brand recognition outside of the hiking/climbing world so people feel validated in buying them. I have a hunch this is what is allowing Benchmades and CRKTs to sell in backpacking stores. I look at the knives and I see rather generic frame lock knives with high prices, but I get that if a guy buys in at his local REI, his office buds will tell him he did OK because he's seen them carry them.

Another thing people like is icons. SAKs are icons. Certain other brands and products have achieved that.

Are any of Buck's (otherwise great) locking folders iconic? Can that be said about the Alphas, the Bantams, the the Bones, the Flashpoints, the BuckLite Max, the ErgoHunters, the Omni Hunters, the Impulses, the Luxes, the Paradigms, or the Vantages? When you look at any of those knives (as good as they may be) do you say, "No other company could have made this other than Buck" in the same way that you can about an SAK?

I think (just little old warped brain me) the Ecolite 110/112 have this going on. I actually think the BuckLite Max line is close too. And imo (again, just little old me) it's about the basic shape of the frame, not the blade. Cover up the blades and I think a good number of knife buyers would recognize the Ecolites as being "Buck knife".

Anyway, I don't know for sure that it is the clip blade that puts people off. I can summarize conversations with 3 different sales clerks, all young guys in their mid to late 20s. I played stupid and went through the paces of looking at this knife and that and working my way round to the Buck Ecolite 112. The summary of each of the discussions was along the lines of "Very nice knife. Light and strong but it's really more of a hunting knife."

My sense is that for them a clip blade makes it a hunting knife (and they really aren't wrong on that point).

So what's Buck to do? The iconic locking folders in their stable is the 110/112, almost universally understood as being "the Buck knife". But most backpackers aren't hunters. Is the only answer to give them a long list of nice but rather non-descript set of tactical folders? CRKT can do that and is.
 
I don't know why Buck doesn't do as you think they should, but I do believe that they would be in that market if they wanted to be there. They do have the one offering like what you're lusting after in the Shockley (sp?) drop point ecolite that I showed in post #19 yesterday. A great seller? I don't know, but I doubt it at the price point.


Off topic perhaps, but in the defense of the Bucklite Max (a blade you like), they are one heck of a good knife. I don't know how much use/abuse hikers and backpackers put their knives through because I don't do that stuff, not being much of a tree hugger myself.

However, about two and a half years ago, I gave one (a 486 B&C model) to a cousin of mine. He retired fairly early and spends a large amount of his time helping out his church and older members with home repairs and upgrades. The man sure doesn't baby his knife, he uses it and uses it hard for nearly everything. Last spring when he was here helping my brother with some home remodeling, I asked him if he was ready for another one and his response was "Heck no! Old Pinky's still going strong!" He whipped it out and it's just as tight and locks up just as solid as it did when it was new. It does have quite a few battle scars, but what the heck, it's been a working knife for some time now.

Another plus, he said it makes a great peanut butter spreader! :thumbup:
 
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