Current Military and Law Enforcement Knives

VernonRemington said:
I’m a cop in a large midwestern city. Most guys carry crappy “tactical gas station” knives. Partially serrated with the glass breaker.

I’ve seen a few guys with ultratechs, ZTs or Spyderco, but the average officer isn’t a knife connoisseur.
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Yeah, that certainly seems to be the consensus.
So far, this thread has discovered that anything issued is for specialist units on the law enforcement side. And even that looks sparse.
 
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tusk212 said:
The Sheepdog was designed with/for Lt Col David Grossman, hence the "Sheepdog" moniker.
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Interesting .
I dig the "Sheepdog" moniker :thumbsup:


The Dr. describes a world largely populated with sheep (presumably grazing on consumerism and a diet of junk food and junk information!) Preying on these sheep is a small percentage of the population who are wolves, drawn to violence without conscience. The wolves pick away at the weakest sheep, and society pays scant attention.

When you are the sheep who enters into the cross-hairs of a wolf, your world will change from ignorant bliss to terror in the time it takes you to read these words. Should you survive, you will be changed forever.

In those moments, the sheep scream out for help. Who hears them?

It is you, the sheepdog.

The sheepdog is typically the law enforcement officer, first responder or soldier. These servants have taken a vow to protect the sheep. Increasingly it is also the warrior professional who steps up and takes a stand. You must be that person, the sheepdog, if you are living the warrior’s path.

https://sealfit.com/wolves-sheep-and-sheepdogs/
 
Pinemoon said:
Interesting .
I dig the "Sheepdog" moniker :thumbsup:


The Dr. describes a world largely populated with sheep (presumably grazing on consumerism and a diet of junk food and junk information!) Preying on these sheep is a small percentage of the population who are wolves, drawn to violence without conscience. The wolves pick away at the weakest sheep, and society pays scant attention.

When you are the sheep who enters into the cross-hairs of a wolf, your world will change from ignorant bliss to terror in the time it takes you to read these words. Should you survive, you will be changed forever.

In those moments, the sheep scream out for help. Who hears them?

It is you, the sheepdog.

The sheepdog is typically the law enforcement officer, first responder or soldier. These servants have taken a vow to protect the sheep. Increasingly it is also the warrior professional who steps up and takes a stand. You must be that person, the sheepdog, if you are living the warrior’s path.

https://sealfit.com/wolves-sheep-and-sheepdogs/
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Sheep aren't to be trifled with.
f1e5add352d75c1eb503e42dd73f008a96570167.gif
 
From a Navy perspective -

Except for "special" training groups, e.g., SEALS and BUDS, and certain occupational specialties (electricians, divers and pilots/air crew), the US Navy has issued/provided virtually NOTHING to regular swabbies since the mid-1970s.

The vast majority of carried knives have been PX or Ship's Store purchases - and all of those have been folders. Most ships either banned or "strongly discouraged" fixed blade carry. The knives sold aboard ships through the ship's store during 1970s through the 1990s were generally "the classics" - Buck 110, Buck 112, Case or Camillus 1/2 blade folders, MAYBE a few Camillus private sale DEMO knives. The stores never had more than 3 or 4 models to choose from. I can only assume that other brands have gradually infiltrated ship's sales over the years.

The standard ship's small boat crew knives, the USN MK1 and the 20227 ("new" 1960s nomenclature for the USN MK2/USMC 1219C2) were pulled from general issue and removed from issue/carry in the mid 1970s. Fixed blade requirements for boat crew equipment was eliminated sometime in 1978, a couple of years AFTER the MK1 and MK2 were pulled from ship's inventory. Navy Regs took a while to catch up with the Navy Supply System.

Generally, my men in Deck and Engineering departments (Boatswain's Mates, Enginemen, Signalmen) carried Buck 110s or 112s for boat crew duty. Electricians would be issued TL-29s, or they carried their own KNIVES, AGAIN. Towards the end of my 20 years (in the late 90s), multi-tools started popping up among the electricians. Very few of my Operations department personnel carried knives - maybe the few signalmen who were assigned boat crew duties during Amphib training ops on gators.

As a Division Officer and a Department Head I personally carried a Buck 110 on my belt and a couple of no-name stainless steel lockbacks (bought at a Target in San Diego) in my pockets. I later replaced the 110 with a 112. In my experience, very few officers carried pocket knives. The exceptions were Mustangs who started out as BMs or ENs or EMs - the ratings that usually manned small boats. I was a rare exception, probably because I grew up as a Texas farm boy and carried a pair of folders everywhere from age 6 through college.
 
zzyzzogeton zzyzzogeton
Thanks for the history on the ships.

You said:
The standard ship's small boat crew knives, the USN MK1 and the 20227 ("new" 1960s nomenclature for the USN MK2/USMC 1219C2) were pulled from general issue and removed from issue/carry in the mid 1970s. Fixed blade requirements for boat crew equipment was eliminated sometime in 1978, a couple of years AFTER the MK1 and MK2 were pulled from ship's inventory. Navy Regs took a while to catch up with the Navy Supply System.

Curious to learn why the above knives were pulled from general use, as well as the elimination of the fixed blade requirement. Costs, relevance? Thanks.
 
I wasnt issued anything in the Army. Carried a Gerber multitool and a Benchmade AFCK. This was late 90s, early 2000.
 
Pinemoon said:
zzyzzogeton zzyzzogeton
Thanks for the history on the ships.

You said:
The standard ship's small boat crew knives, the USN MK1 and the 20227 ("new" 1960s nomenclature for the USN MK2/USMC 1219C2) were pulled from general issue and removed from issue/carry in the mid 1970s. Fixed blade requirements for boat crew equipment was eliminated sometime in 1978, a couple of years AFTER the MK1 and MK2 were pulled from ship's inventory. Navy Regs took a while to catch up with the Navy Supply System.

Curious to learn why the above knives were pulled from general use, as well as the elimination of the fixed blade requirement. Costs, relevance? Thanks.
Click to expand...


Why? Who knows. Some bean counter somewhere probably decided that the MK1 and MK2 were "no longer relevant" and in a cost cutting move eliminated the requirement. Most logical reason. Most of what I know is from my own experiences, not any "facts", like a smoking gun letter or anything.

Here's how my MK1/MK2 "knowledge" came about ---

As an ROTC Midshipman, I went on my 1st Class summer training to a ship in Japan - USS DIXIE (AD-14), a repair ship in 1976. We got zip diddly for actual Navy training or experience. We did get to go out for a bunch of small boat ops in the harbor for "Boat Officer" training. Most likely, just to get all 4 of us out of the way so the Midshipman Training Officer could get real work done. Part of the Boat Officer training was to review Navy Regs on the duties and responsibilities of a Boat Officer, boat crew, boat ops, etc.

One of the sections in the regs listed required/recommended boat and boat crew equipment. One item was that ALL boat crew should (not shall) be equipped with a USN MK1 or USN MK2 knife. Since a Boat Officer would be included under the description ALL, I assumed I needed one or both. I already knew that I would have to provide/pay for my own uniforms, dress sword, etc, so I figured I needed to provide my own MK1/MK2 for Boat Officer duties.

When I returned to the US and went back to College Station TX for summer classes and my Senior year. I went down to the local Surplus Equipment business looking for them. Lo and behold, there was a 30 gallon barrel of each, priced at $10 each. Having 6 weeks of 1C Midshipman pay in the bank, I went ahead and bought 1 of each. I also found a really cool bayonet (turned out to be an 1866 Chassepot Rifle bayonet). I dickered with the owner and got all 3 for $25. (OH, Damn, If I had known then what I know now, I would have bought both barrels.)

Fast Forward to September 1977, I'm on my first ship after commissioning, deployed to the Western Pacific. We had an amphib exercise scheduled and I was assigned to be the Medical Boat Officer, responsible for evaccing anyone injured during the exercises that was not a critical injury. We launched long before dawn. I choose to carry my MK2 that day.

We got a couple of quick breaks during the day for head calls, but no one on the boat deck commented on my knife. At the end of the day, when my boat was lifted back aboard, the XO happened to be there as I took off the kapok life jacket,

"Z- what the hell is that sword you're wearing?"

"Sir, What sword? You mean my MK2?"

"If that's what it is, yeah. Why are you carrying it?"

"Navy regs says all boat crew should carry either a MK1 or a MK2, sir. I was going to ask why none of my boat crew had one."

That lead to a "Bull Shit. Report to my stateroom after you get cleaned up."

Later, in his stateroom, I again repeated the Navy Regs line.

"Show me."

I rooted through his set until I found the section and showed it to him.

That prompted him to call the First Lieutenant (Deck Department Head) to his stateroom.

XO - "What's this about?"

1LT - "Oh, we used to carry them, but we quit a while back."

XO - "Why?"

1LT - "I don't know. We were just told we didn't have them on the ship any more."

That caused the Supply Officer to be summoned. He couldn't give a reason why they were no longer a part of ship's inventory, which prompted a call to the SKC (Supply Chief Petty Officer in charge of all of the supplies maintained on the ship).

SKC - "Oh, we got a letter a year or two ago from NSC (Naval Supply Command) that MK1s and MK2s were no longer needed aboard ships, so turn them all in. We did."

(This explains why there were BARRELS of them available.)

Being a dumb Ensign, I piped up "Boy that's stupid. A fixed blade is always better than a folding knife in an emergency."

All 3 (1 O5 and 2 O4s) looked at me with an expression of "HUH??"

"Let me show you --- "

"Sxxx - Suppo's leg is caught in a bight." and proceeding to fumble for getting a folder out of my pocket, opening it and... "Oh too late, Suppo's been pulled over the side."

Then --

"Sxxx - Suppo's leg is caught in a bight." and feigned pulling my MK2 and swinging down to try to chop the imaginary line.

"You can't get a folding knife out and open in time."

I was basically shooed out the door with permission to continue using my knives.

About 6 months later, a change came out to Navy Regs removing the MK1/MK2 requirement. I was never allowed to pack a MK1 or MK2 on boat ops again.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
Why? Who knows. Some bean counter somewhere probably decided that the MK1 and MK2 were "no longer relevant" and in a cost cutting move eliminated the requirement. Most logical reason. Most of what I know is from my own experiences, not any "facts", like a smoking gun letter or anything.

Here's how my MK1/MK2 "knowledge" came about ---

As an ROTC Midshipman, I went on my 1st Class summer training to a ship in Japan - USS DIXIE (AD-14), a repair ship in 1976. We got zip diddly for actual Navy training or experience. We did get to go out for a bunch of small boat ops in the harbor for "Boat Officer" training. Most likely, just to get all 4 of us out of the way so the Midshipman Training Officer could get real work done. Part of the Boat Officer training was to review Navy Regs on the duties and responsibilities of a Boat Officer, boat crew, boat ops, etc.

One of the sections in the regs listed required/recommended boat and boat crew equipment. One item was that ALL boat crew should (not shall) be equipped with a USN MK1 or USN MK2 knife. Since a Boat Officer would be included under the description ALL, I assumed I needed one or both. I already knew that I would have to provide/pay for my own uniforms, dress sword, etc, so I figured I needed to provide my own MK1/MK2 for Boat Officer duties.

When I returned to the US and went back to College Station TX for summer classes and my Senior year. I went down to the local Surplus Equipment business looking for them. Lo and behold, there was a 30 gallon barrel of each, priced at $10 each. Having 6 weeks of 1C Midshipman pay in the bank, I went ahead and bought 1 of each. I also found a really cool bayonet (turned out to be an 1866 Chassepot Rifle bayonet). I dickered with the owner and got all 3 for $25. (OH, Damn, If I had known then what I know now, I would have bought both barrels.)

Fast Forward to September 1977, I'm on my first ship after commissioning, deployed to the Western Pacific. We had an amphib exercise scheduled and I was assigned to be the Medical Boat Officer, responsible for evaccing anyone injured during the exercises that was not a critical injury. We launched long before dawn. I choose to carry my MK2 that day.

We got a couple of quick breaks during the day for head calls, but no one on the boat deck commented on my knife. At the end of the day, when my boat was lifted back aboard, the XO happened to be there as I took off the kapok life jacket,

"Z- what the hell is that sword you're wearing?"

"Sir, What sword? You mean my MK2?"

"If that's what it is, yeah. Why are you carrying it?"

"Navy regs says all boat crew should carry either a MK1 or a MK2, sir. I was going to ask why none of my boat crew had one."

That lead to a "Bull Shit. Report to my stateroom after you get cleaned up."

Later, in his stateroom, I again repeated the Navy Regs line.

"Show me."

I rooted through his set until I found the section and showed it to him.

That prompted him to call the First Lieutenant (Deck Department Head) to his stateroom.

XO - "What's this about?"

1LT - "Oh, we used to carry them, but we quit a while back."

XO - "Why?"

1LT - "I don't know. We were just told we didn't have them on the ship any more."

That caused the Supply Officer to be summoned. He couldn't give a reason why they were no longer a part of ship's inventory, which prompted a call to the SKC (Supply Chief Petty Officer in charge of all of the supplies maintained on the ship).

SKC - "Oh, we got a letter a year or two ago from NSC (Naval Supply Command) that MK1s and MK2s were no longer needed aboard ships, so turn them all in. We did."

(This explains why there were BARRELS of them available.)

Being a dumb Ensign, I piped up "Boy that's stupid. A fixed blade is always better than a folding knife in an emergency."

All 3 (1 O5 and 2 O4s) looked at me with an expression of "HUH??"

"Let me show you --- "

"Sxxx - Suppo's leg is caught in a bight." and proceeding to fumble for getting a folder out of my pocket, opening it and... "Oh too late, Suppo's been pulled over the side."

Then --

"Sxxx - Suppo's leg is caught in a bight." and feigned pulling my MK2 and swinging down to try to chop the imaginary line.

"You can't get a folding knife out and open in time."

I was basically shooed out the door with permission to continue using my knives.

About 6 months later, a change came out to Navy Regs removing the MK1/MK2 requirement. I was never allowed to pack a MK1 or MK2 on boat ops again.
Click to expand...
Great story!
You should have gotten some sort of promotion for exposing the breakdown in knife policy and for demonstrating the value of fixed over folding knife :thumbsup:
 
My dad was issued an m7 bayonet in the 80s when he was active duty air force. He was issued a benchmade griptilian as a game warden. Mainly though troops and cops have to buy their own knives. If you are deploying overseas you may get issued a kabar or m9.
 
Standard issue Dutch Military SAK. This is the new model, the old one has a normal saw and blade you will find on Victorinox SAk's, without the holes.

Kinda bummed I lost mine in the woods (I had the old model).
SlLXqQp.jpg
 
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