Custom Fixed-blade vs. Custom Folders

If you had ever seen a McHenry/Williams Axis lock you would know that their knives aren't designed for hard use.



And a lot of custom makers have copied the factories. Who invented the trapper or stockman :)
Are you saying that the basic trapper and stockman slippie designs sprung forth from the head of Zeus......or Schrade as the Case (pun intended) may be...........fully formed?:D
 
I do have a Benchmade with a silver colored handle:D

It has an axis lock and is a very solid knife with solid lock-up but I have been disappointed with the 154cm blade steel.
Same here. The experience of sharpening one of those things is somewhere between getting a root canal and doing your tax returns as far as i am concerned.:p
 
Same here. The experience of sharpening one of those things is somewhere between getting a root canal and doing your tax returns as far as i am concerned.:p

Yeah, pretty bad and doesn't cut very well either.....Really.

I guess, I'm just used to a thinly ground carbon steel blade that can be sharpened scary sharp.
 
I guess I am missing the point on the factory versus custom locking-edge argument? Most of the custom folders that are used are not used 'hard' in the first place. Especially those with under 4-inch blades. If hard use is intended, I think most would prefer a fixed blade.
Seems like this argument is like comparing telling time with a $10.00 Timex versus a $15,000 timepiece? If you want special features, you upgrade from the Timex.

- Joe
 
Originally Posted by jdm61
Same here. The experience of sharpening one of those things is somewhere between getting a root canal and doing your tax returns as far as i am concerned.

Yeah, pretty bad and doesn't cut very well either.....Really.

I guess, I'm just used to a thinly ground carbon steel blade that can be sharpened scary sharp.

If you look at knives from a factory perspective, carbon steel can be a tough sell.

Most consumers and dealers are more interested in rust-resistance and edge holding than flexibility and ease of resharpening. Factories use high-alloy steels like 154-CM becasuse they won't rust in a dealers case or in a customers pocket like belt finished carbon also because most people cannot sharpen their own knives anyway and in many cases resturn them back to the factories for their free (in many cases) resharpening policy. It is a lot easier to sharpen knives for fre than refinish them.

If you want a thin ground factory blade that can be scary sharp Don, from a factory, try this:

http://www.agrussell.com/knives/production/a_through_d/boker/bker_opinel_model_op8.html
 
I guess I am missing the point on the factory versus custom locking-edge argument? Most of the custom folders that are used are not used 'hard' in the first place. Especially those with under 4-inch blades. If hard use is intended, I think most would prefer a fixed blade.
Seems like this argument is like comparing telling time with a $10.00 Timex versus a $15,000 timepiece? If you want special features, you upgrade from the Timex.

You are missing the point. The question was asked why collect fixed over folding.

My answer was that handmade fixed blades could offer a true performance advantage over factory made fixed blades while many custom folders could NOT offer the same increases in performance over custom folders.

In a large fixed blade I look for toughness and ergonomics that I cannot get in a factory piece. I also want distal taper and selectively hardened blades that are rarely done in a production setting.

Most factory folders use the same steels, from the same mills in some cases heat treated by the same folks that heat treat the customs. The customs usually have better fit and finish and handle materials, but rarely better heat treat, edge geometry, or lock strength.

In fact, I will put the lock of a Spyderco Chinook, Manix, ATR, Pikal, Temperance, or any of the Cold Steel, SOG or Benchmade Axis style locks against any custom liner lock or "Frame-Lock" in any short or long term endurance test.

There are some things the engineers at the factories have figured out better than custom makers. Product liabillity has made lock strength a high priority to factories since the explosion over the past decade in the training in the use of folding knives as self-defense tools.

A lot of folks don't agree with me. Usually those are the same folks who have a vested interest in selling or making $500 frame lock or folding knives.
Thats fine by me. That is their perogative.
 
I guess I am missing the point on the factory versus custom locking-edge argument? Most of the custom folders that are used are not used 'hard' in the first place. Especially those with under 4-inch blades. If hard use is intended, I think most would prefer a fixed blade.
Seems like this argument is like comparing telling time with a $10.00 Timex versus a $15,000 timepiece? If you want special features, you upgrade from the Timex.

- Joe

I think the better comparison for the issue here is that an argument is being made that the Timex keeps better time than the $15,000 timepiece.

And to, MANY or perhaps most higher end custom fixed-blades are not used, however their ability to hold up under to hard use is of utmost importance to most every collector and/or maker of custom fixed blades. So is this not as important with custom folders?
 
You are missing the point. The question was asked why collect fixed over folding.

My answer was that handmade fixed blades could offer a true performance advantage over factory made fixed blades while many custom folders could NOT offer the same increases in performance over custom folders.

In a large fixed blade I look for toughness and ergonomics that I cannot get in a factory piece. I also want distal taper and selectively hardened blades that are rarely done in a production setting.

Most factory folders use the same steels, from the same mills in some cases heat treated by the same folks that heat treat the customs. The customs usually have better fit and finish and handle materials, but rarely better heat treat, edge geometry, or lock strength.

In fact, I will put the lock of a Spyderco Chinook, Manix, ATR, Pikal, Temperance, or any of the Cold Steel, SOG or Benchmade Axis style locks against any custom liner lock or "Frame-Lock" in any short or long term endurance test.

There are some things the engineers at the factories have figured out better than custom makers. Product liabillity has made lock strength a high priority to factories since the explosion over the past decade in the training in the use of folding knives as self-defense tools.

A lot of folks don't agree with me. Usually those are the same folks who have a vested interest in selling or making $500 frame lock or folding knives.
Thats fine by me. That is their perogative.

Actually Anthony, it is you that have missed the point here as my purpose for starting this thread (if you read my introduction) was to get comparisons between the two from a collecting standpoint not "why to collect fixed over folders".
I'm trying to educate myself on folders as I have recently become interested in them and thought others may also benefit from expert opinions and views
here.

You do make some good points above though, especially regarding factory folders being under pressure to insure superior lock strength for liability reasons and comparing custom fixed-blade advantages over factory fixed-blades.
 
I think the better comparison for the issue here is that an argument is being made that the Timex keeps better time than the $15,000 timepiece.

And to, MANY or perhaps most higher end custom fixed-blades are not used, however their ability to hold up under to hard use is of utmost importance to most every collector and/or maker of custom fixed blades. So is this not as important with custom folders?

I feel it is VERY important, but customs reach a certain cost level where it may not be very practical to use hard.
And, we have gotten a little off track, but I see what Anthony is using as his basis for custom fixed blades in his collection over custom folders. But, the mention of a good preformance Benchmade Sequel costing the manufacturer $18-$20 versus a $15,000 Walker or Lake isn't the intent here. The production knives are for use and not part of a custom collection.

- Joe
 
I feel it is VERY important, but customs reach a certain cost level where it may not be very practical to use hard.
And, we have gotten a little off track, but I see what Anthony is using as his basis for custom fixed blades in his collection over custom folders. But, the mention of a good preformance Benchmade Sequel costing the manufacturer $18-$20 versus a $15,000 Walker or Lake isn't the intent here. The production knives are for use and not part of a custom collection.

- Joe

Good points Joe.

I'm with you Don, I'm going to order one of those Bokers. :thumbup::D
 
Actually Anthony, it is you that have missed the point here as my purpose for starting this thread (if you read my introduction) was to get comparisons between the two from a collecting standpoint not "why to collect fixed over folders".

I am just trying to save you some money :)
 
I wasn't kidding, I'm ordering one.
That's a very cool and functional user knife for the price of a burger, fries and coke. ;):)
 
Yeah, pretty bad and doesn't cut very well either.....Really.

I guess, I'm just used to a thinly ground carbon steel blade that can be sharpened scary sharp.

Both my brother and I have early versions of the the Benchmade AFCK. That thing came from the factory with a nasty sharp edge, but once it was used for a while, forget it!!!!! My brother experienced the same thing with his Henckels kitchen knives, whereas i was able to rescue a battered and bloodied cheap Forschner wood handled, thin bladed chefs knife from the grave with the good old KMG. That thing is super sharp now. Sometimes ya get lucky.:thumbup:
 
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