Custom Knife History

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Pattern Welded or Damascus steel has NEVER been out of production, The German Navy issued damascus swords to their high ranking officers in WW I and presentation daggers of damascus in WWII The German cutlery companies made sporting knives all during the early 20th century. Sword makers in Northern Europe were making pattern welded swords in the 8th Century. The sword makers in India were making Wootz blades 1,000 -1,200 years ago and these blades were being sold through the trade paths including the major trade center Damascus. In the middle ages pattern welded steel was also made in Toledo Spain.



I saw damascus sword blades in Germany in the 1960s and sold damascus folders made in the 1930s by German cutlers and I bought pattern welded blades from Daryl Meier at the Bagnal Dam Gun show in MO in 1970.

If anyone should be called the father of Damascus in America it should be Daryl Meier of Carbondale IL, many makers have used his pioneer work and continued it.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Pattern Welded or Damascus steel has NEVER been out of production, The German Navy issued damascus swords to their high ranking officers in WW I and presentation daggers of damascus in WWII The German cutlery companies made sporting knives all during the early 20th century. Sword makers in Northern Europe were making pattern welded swords in the 8th Century. The sword makers in India were making Wootz blades 1,000 -1,200 years ago and these blades were being sold through the trade paths including the major trade center Damascus. In the middle ages pattern welded steel was also made in Toledo Spain.



I saw damascus sword blades in Germany in the 1960s and sold damascus folders made in the 1930s by German cutlers and I bought pattern welded blades from Daryl Meier at the Bagnal Dam Gun show in MO in 1970.

If anyone should be called the father of Damascus in America it should be Daryl Meier of Carbondale IL, many makers have used his pioneer work and continued it.
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Very good info A.G. This is part of the history that needs to be told.

Jim Wallace and another smith were working with Daryl Meier in the late 60s' early 70s' making pattern welded steel. Bill Moran got credit for it because of his showing at the Guild show.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Al,

the first photograph in this post (12) is a visiting knife maker showing off his pocket knife. It is not Bob.

Fixed - Thank You!
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A. G. Russell said:
Al,

I doubt that any one influenced Cooper. (But he had to get his influence some were? He would not of come up with all of it completely on his own?)
A. G.
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Don Hanson III said:
That's Wayne Clay I believe.
Is this for sure? - They could be twins?
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A. G. Russell said:
Pattern Welded or Damascus steel has NEVER been out of production, The German Navy issued damascus swords to their high ranking officers in WW I and presentation daggers of damascus in WWII The German cutlery companies made sporting knives all during the early 20th century. Sword makers in Northern Europe were making pattern welded swords in the 8th Century. The sword makers in India were making Wootz blades 1,000 -1,200 years ago and these blades were being sold through the trade paths including the major trade center Damascus. In the middle ages pattern welded steel was also made in Toledo Spain.



I saw damascus sword blades in Germany in the 1960s and sold damascus folders made in the 1930s by German cutlers and I bought pattern welded blades from Daryl Meier at the Bagnal Dam Gun show in MO in 1970.

If anyone should be called the father of Damascus in America it should be Daryl Meier of Carbondale IL, many makers have used his pioneer work and continued it.
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Thank you very much for the help here, I know it means a lot to many a collector out there.
 
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Quote Originally Posted by Don Hanson III View Post
That's Wayne Clay I believe.
Is this for sure? - They could be twins?
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Yes, I'm sure. He was one of the makers in the 'How to make Folding Knives' book.
 
What a great read. I just love the history of these guys. Do you have anything on Bud Cronk. I'm a huge fan of his work
 
Pocketknifesheaths said:
So George Herron pretty much hints that - Randall was the influence for him starting.....

John Cooper - Maybe influenced by Marble's? - or a Scagel?

Buster Warenski reads about custom knives - and it was Gil Hibben and the price of Gil's knives that sparked his interest.... thanks! Gil. - :thumbup: :D

And Dan Dennehy starts making knives in WWII - So it could of been Marble's? Cooper's? or Randall's knives that maybe influenced him?

What do you think?:confused:


This knife below could of been made in the late 1800's or after? - By who?

OldKnife1880s_zpsc405162a.jpg
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I'm guessing that is a Russell too but more than one company has offered the pattern as a fish cleaning knife. I have one made by Ontario I bought in the 70's.
 
okie 46 said:
What a great read. I just love the history of these guys. Do you have anything on Bud Cronk. I'm a huge fan of his work
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To tell you the truth I don't have any thing - Right now I'm waiting on a call back from Jess Horn, he's busy dealing with health issues, so be patient.
Putting a thread like this together takes time. I had saved a lot of old photos to use, but not so much info. A lot of the information is out there, you just have to look
for it and find it? That is kind of why I started this thread? I thought it would be good to put as much of it in one place as I/we could?

I'm trying to keep to some what of a time line? I know it will not be perfect but I try...

Maybe you could do research on Bud and put together a post on him when you think he fits into were we are at in the time line?
And IF you do your research first - you will know were he fits in with out a doubt.
 
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I posted about the knife Guild - and there is something missing?

How many makers were in the very beginning when they started? What's the number?

And what are their names?:D
 
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Pocketknifesheaths said:
The influence in custom knives and the knife makers guild.......

The Knife makers' Guild is an organization made up of knife makers to promote custom knives, encourage ethical business practices, assist with technical aspects of knife making, and to sponsor knife shows. The Guild is composed of 300 knife maker members and several thousand collectors, writers, and other investors as honorary members.


The idea for Knife makers' Guild came about at a Las Vegas, Nevada gun show held at the Sahara Casino in February 1970. The actual founding occurred in November 1970 by A.G. Russell in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Charter members included Blackie Collins, Bob Loveless, John Nelson Cooper, and Dan Dennehy. Russell was made the first president with Loveless as the Secretary.

Presidents have included Jimmy Lile, Frank Centofante, D'Alton Holder, George Herron, Buster Warenski, and William F. Moran. The Knife makers' Guild is composed of over 300 members worldwide.

The Knife makers' Guild hosts an annual show where members meet once a year to conduct business, elect officers, and display their work. The show is attended by thousands of collectors.
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The post above is what I posted...... so if you read everything up to this point. You probably thought you new a lot?

I did the post above an had to go look to be sure?

To add it here.........



There were - 11 (eleven) makers.


John Applebaugh

Walter "Blackie" Collins

John Nelson Cooper

Dan Dennehy

T.M. Dowell

Chubby Hueske

John Kirk

R.W. Loveless

John Owens

Jim Pugh

G.W. Stone


So if you add A.G. Russell's name here - that's twelve? He was elected President, but he was a member also right?
 
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While living in the Saint Louis area, in the early 70s, I visited the Jefferson memorial, and
saw there a damascus Civil War saber made by a man named Mueller.......I visited the memorial
while waiting for Dr. Jim Giganti to return home.....his home was across the street......he was the
founding editor and original owner of Knife World.
 
I don't think it's accurate to conclude that Marbles 'influenced' Scagel beyond the fact that Scagel is known to have essentially reproduced by hand one or two Marbles designs. Outside of that, if you look at Scagel's overall body of known work it is difficult to detect any human influence other than his own.

He was very influenced by nature, self-studied botany and other natural sciences and was somewhat of a horticulturist. Scagel's knives clearly evidenced two major themes from nature; 1) there are no straight lines in nature, and 2) no two things are exactly alike in nature (snowflakes and humans, for example). Thus, when you find straight lines in his work, it is likely something to do with a commissioned piece or related, and he never made two knives (or handles) alike.

Scagel was also obviously influenced by the maritime world he grew up in. He worked on boats, in and out of his father's boat-building business - for many years including all of his formative years. Then, as a merchant marine, he took on some Indonesian influence - that is the origin of his maker's mark - the kriss.

And finally, I believe, Scagel was influenced in his knife designs by the tasks people of his day performed with knives. So we have kitchen knives, carving sets, fishing and hunting knives, knives for soldiers, string cutters as well as a wide array of copper-ware from pots to mugs - not to mention decorative iron work, braces for crippled children etc.

So, for these reasons I think it's probably more accurate to note that Scagel and Marbles were contemporaries and not much more. Here's one of my photos of a Marbles design made by Scagel that should not be interpreted as proof of influence. The history of this knife and why Scagel made it is not known.

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All the photos in this post are mine even though I have not (yet) put a frame around all of them with my name and date. I made these and many more for Dr. Jim Lucie's definitive book about Scagel featuring his own extensive collection and those of other top Scagel collectors so you will also find these images in the book along with Dr. Lucie's text which contains virtually all that is know with any certainty about W.W. Scagel.

Without Bo Randall's chance encounter with a Scagel knife I think Scagel would be known, appreciated and his work collected. But he would not likely have become the icon and mythological figure he is today. Consistently, modern writers have referred to Scagel as the father (or grandfather) of modern custom knife-making primarily because he influenced Randall and Randall's influence became very great indeed. IMHO, through the two of them grew one of the most significant parts of the trunk of the contemporary knife-history tree (I see Loveless and Moran as two other large and distinct parts of the foundation from which so much has come).

There is much that is unknown about Scagel - and yet a lot has been written. So it can't all be true. This is what I know - Jim Lucie would not repeat or write anything about Scagel that could not be verified by either his own research, a Scagel family member or one of the few folks around who actually knew the man. Jim, a physician by training and experience, sticks to what is known and is reluctant to guess or speculate. So, if it's not in his book then it's either untrue or unsubstantiated.

Here is some of my favorite Scagel stuff, photographed over about a 5 year period prior to publication of Dr. Lucie's book a couple of years ago.

Not a straight line anywhere
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Muskrat trapper rig - knife and forged chain
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The arrow under his name appears exclusively on Scagel's personal stuff
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The brow tine pommel is also classic Scagel
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Scagel also made beautiful knives ;)
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