Custom Knife Market

striper28 said:
5 out of the 8 makers you listed do make knives that almost all look the same. 2 don't even forge!!
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Chuck, I am not sure why you make the comment about forging, can you explain?.... Certainly in my mind this is not a discussion purely about the Forged Blade and the ABS .. it is a discussion about the whole myriad of custom knives and makers, fixed and folders, forged and stock removal, tactical and traditional. The issues raised here apply to all these areas. Surely some of the most copied and emulated patterns are those of Loveless et al. :confused:

Cheers,

Stephen
 
There are a lot of knives that look the same but they sell well and a maker, even a partimer needs to sell to finance his hobby. I think the issue is not the makers but the buyers. Buyers of handmade knives are on the whole conservative and there are not enough who would spent money on new and original designs to create a critical mass for those that make them to florish. For new designs and concepts to be viable, it needs to attract a bigger and more varied buyers with wider interests than iterations of the same tried and tested designs and concepts.
 
I think that there are so many great makers out there that it doesn't matter. I am not sure how thaey can all stay in business--but whatever the reasons, I sure hope they continue.

So a lot of makers make big honkin bowies. And it might be a little hard to teall a big honkin bowie made by maker A from taht made by maker B. Ok, if you are worried about that, go to the blade show. You will have absolutely no problem finding a beautiful, unique big honkin bowie,, not to be confused with anyone else's.

Oh, you don't like big honkin bowies? Lots of makers with other stuff on their tables. Don't like any of that? Talk to one of the makers, see if he (and these days I also have to say she) is willing to make something along the lines of something that you design. If the first one won't the next one will. A huge percent of these guys will try all sorts of new things. Every maker that I have bought a knife from wants my input (or at least says so). Worst case, you will have to wait awhile till the maker gets around to your project, but that would be the case anyway.

Some of these makers make knives in so many different styles that you can't keep track of all of them. And they are all beautiful. Look at Chuck Gedraitis.


nah- for knife users, collectors, etc--- these are the best of times. I sincerely hope that it's true for the makers as well.
 
I like the knifemaker who puts the naked lady on his blades! Can't afford too many of his thought. We need more like him.
 
Individuality is important.

One could argue a "good copy" vs. a "bad copy", or an "authorized version" versus something else. There is also "real value" which I would consider performance related. Interesting story, someone told me last week, they'd seen one of "maker X's" students "knocking off" his knives on a website. I hadn't heard it put like that before, but it made me think about how most people see it.

I saw a program last week on t.v. about mass merchandizing, how China is beating us at every turn. Walmart is one, if not the main U.S. culprit, and can dictate to any manufacturer (home or abroad) the price point of it's merchandise. It was interesting, but it made me wonder how long it would be before we'd see a huge influx of knives made in China.. available in Walmart, Jerry Fisk's "Sendero Hunter" $49.95. Unlimited quantity. Maybe it's already happened and I just don't know it yet. Are there copyrights that can protect knifemakers from this?
David
 
2knife said:
Individuality is important.

One could argue a "good copy" vs. a "bad copy", or an "authorized version" versus something else. There is also "real value" which I would consider performance related. Interesting story, someone told me last week, they'd seen one of "maker X's" students "knocking off" his knives on a website. I hadn't heard it put like that before, but it made me think about how most people see it.

I saw a program last week on t.v. about mass merchandizing, how China is beating us at every turn. Walmart is one, if not the main U.S. culprit, and can dictate to any manufacturer (home or abroad) the price point of it's merchandise. It was interesting, but it made me wonder how long it would be before we'd see a huge influx of knives made in China.. available in Walmart, Jerry Fisk's "Sendero Hunter" $49.95. Unlimited quantity. Maybe it's already happened and I just don't know it yet. Are there copyrights that can protect knifemakers from this?
David
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Ask the guys at Strider... I got a catalog from a Chinese company (how did they found my adress???) offering all kinds of Strider knockoffs, as well as others that I can´t recall immediatelly.
 
striper28 said:
5 out of the 8 makers you listed do make knives that almost all look the same. 2 don't even forge!!
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7 makers mentioned, unless you count ol 'on & on' ;)
:D

I can only speak for myself when I say that I can easily recognize those individual's work.
If 5 out of 7 look the same to you, fine by me.

I believe that the original post was about 'forging one's path' as opposed to forging one's knife.

Personally I like 'em all pounded or grounded.....I'm easy :D

Shing said:
I think the issue is not the makers but the buyers.
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I think that is a very valid point.
 
2knife said:
I saw a program last week on t.v. about mass merchandizing, how China is beating us at every turn. Walmart is one, if not the main U.S. culprit, and can dictate to any manufacturer (home or abroad) the price point of it's merchandise.
Click to expand...

WalMart is not a "culprit". WalMart is in the business of selling products to people. If people are willing to buy Chinese products for less, it's certainly not WalMart's fault. If the vast majority of Americans wanted "US Made" only, you can be certain that that's what WalMart would sell.
 
striper28 said:
5 out of the 8 makers you listed do make knives that almost all look the same. 2 don't even forge!!
Click to expand...


Chuck, you can't be serious with this comment???

None of those makers make knives that are anything close to identical. If one mistook Hendricks for Jay Hendrickson, then yes, his knives are obviously very similar to Moran's, but that's the only one.

I would say your "Scagel folder" looks a hell of a lot closer to a Scagel, than a Fisk, Hossom, Siska, Ruana, or Moran look to a Scagel.

The problem with asking this question is the "eye of the beholder." I mean, if Chuck feels those makers' knives all look alike, then really you would only be able to break up the entire world of knives into a very small handful of "a look."

If each knife group has such a broad spectrum of characteristics to be considered the same... then damn near everything would be categorized as looking the same.

Personally, I think there's plenty of flavor out there.

-Nick-
 
As a true knife nut and knife collector, I feel that I'm in hog heaven right now with all the high quality custom knifemakers out there. There's so much stuff to choose from, there's no need to deal with makers who don't keep their word on quoted prices or those who cancel their orders out of the blue.
 
Nick,
Let me re-phrase my last post about the makers knives all looking the same.

What I tried to say and didn't phrase correctly was that each of these makers makes their own indvidual style of knife, I think that we all agree on that. But the knives that they do make all look the same or similar to each other. I'm not comparing them to anyone else but themselves.

Here's an example,
Most scagel knives all looked the same. Almost all of them had stacked leather handles and crown stag, that's how he made them.

Hossom knives all seem to have the same distinct handle shape with different blade sizes. Even Jerry is making changes to his designs to bring more knifemaking spice back into his life, which is good for him and the knife industry.

Ruana knives all have cast aluminum bolsters.

Jay Hendrickson knives all look similar with the silver wire inlay and maple handles.

Maybe I'm just biased because every folder I make is a one off?
 
Chuck, isn't that what knives "having face" is all about?
They all worked hard to set themselves apart and make an easily identifiable style.

So I guess we agree.

All of your knives are one off, and that is commendable to.
To each his own, eh?
 
Ebbtide,
I do agree that each maker worked hard to set themselves apart and make an easily identifiable style, but when you become known for a particular style it's hard to branch off and do something different. People don't like change. You almost get branded as a certain style maker and that's all you can make because that's all the buying public wants. Maybe it's the public's fault because they are conditioned to all want the same thing.

Loveless, Lake, Terzuola, and H.H. Frank have basically been making the same knife for Maybe 30 years. Granted the materials have been changed and maybe there have been embellishments added but when it comes down to it the knife design has not changed. Maybe it's because it works, but dosen't making the same thing over and over and over get tedious?

It's like a musician becoming an actor or vise versa. Your good at one thing, try something new and just suck at it. The public wants things to go back to the way they were because they only saw you as one type of person. Variety is the spice of life but some people don't like change.
 
striper28 said:
Here's an example,
Most scagel knives all looked the same. Almost all of them had stacked leather handles and crown stag, that's how he made them.
Click to expand...
Chuck - Wow, so you've actually seen 'almost all' of Scagel's, Hendrickson's, Ruana's, Hossom's (etc.) knives?
Oddly, 'most' of the Scagels in this display case below don't fit your description.
orig.jpg


Here are links to a few more images of Scagels' knives that don't fit your description.
http://www.fototime.com/9F1B61D4B978237/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/4D916DA80D5FFDA/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/CDF9CD1E45B789E/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/0598A7FE3A576E2/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/600A4A1B16C25E5/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/BD6B2A02FB861E1/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/AA0EAB99A72DF13/standard.jpg
Bottom two only in this pic:
http://www.fototime.com/7DB64E19D446858/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/9442994BE43AE35/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/D44841C4945C190/standard.jpg
It's doubtful Scagel had in mind a stacked leather/crown stag handle for this unfinished blade either:
http://www.fototime.com/7EA74AF327AB000/orig.jpg

Scagel's knives are recognizable as his own, not because he often used stacked leather and crown stag, but for many things he did (some obvious, some very subtle) that came together in the finished knife in such a way as to be recognizable.

However, you do raise and interesting and important question vis a vis the 'knife market.' Is it better (economically - in a business sense) to cultivate a recognizable style or, given the oversupply of quality custom knives that share certain style features (like 'bowie' for example), is it better to avoid becoming know for a certain recognizable style?

If I was in the knifemaking business, wanted to live indoors and not eat road kill, I would definitely want to see what history has shown and what those who have gone before me who are where I want to be someday can tell me about this question. Two words come to mind that might shed some light on this question: "Harley Davidson"

Or, if you prefer a knife-related example, here's one: "SharpByCoop"
 
Chuck,

I disagree with your comment about when you get known for a particular style, it's hard to branch off and do different stuff.

I guess what I make would fall under the "gray ****" tactical/utility mode, but making different styles isn't a problem and selling them has not been an issue.

Here are a few one offs. Wish I could make more of them. Heck, wish I could make more of any than I'm doing right now :)
 

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Chuck
I agree and disagree with you. Yes, a person can get known for a certain style. My opinion is that all makers need a few regular models so that when someone sees it that associate it with him. That certainly does not mean that is all he needs to work in. When he does only work in that it short changes both he and the collector.

I also disagree that all of my work looks the same. I do medivial pieces as well as bowies and hunters. I try to do just plain honest working knives to duded up. I have a few set patterns but the fun is changing up things.

There could be a recurring theme running through a makers work due to his equipment or method of working. This can also be a good thing. This is how the Bowie #1 was tagged as a litter mate to the Carrighan bowie due to the method of working by James Black. #1 did not have the paper work on it but the Carrighan did have and there was enough evidence to link them to the same maker. So that helped history solve that.
 
It seems to me that paying the bills often times has a lot to do with what drives a maker to make a lot of the same knife. If a maker knows a particular model of his sells very well, and over time, he has learned how to make that knife efficiently, ie. quickly, with a good profit margin, he'd simply be losing too much money spending his finite knifemaking time making too much of anything else.

And, in my eyes, nothing wrong with finding something that works, sticking to, and perfecting it.

I don't find it all that hard to keep my collection diverse, and interesting (to me) :)
 
I think that all of the guys that I mentioned, at least the ones that are still alive ;) , could sell whatever they make.
Based on their name alone.

And I really like the top, edge up, Scagel in the first photo!
 
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