Custom Knife Pricing-Educational Discussion

Kohai999

Kohai999

Second Degree Cutter
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
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Other threads over the years have briefly covered, at different times, how some folks(makers, collectors, dealers) think knives should be priced.

While I don't think there are any truly hard and fast rules, I do think that it is a good subject for us to discuss again.

Before I roll out any of my observations about pricing, I do have a couple thoughts;

1. Don't quit your day job when you are just getting started. Unless you are Kyle Royer or Josh Smith, and started making knives when you were two years old;), you will need an income to pay for the necessary equipment.

2. Expect that times are going to be rough when you go full time, and try to have a nest egg set aside, otherwise you will HAVE to price yourself out of the market. Try to remember that most of your customers work pretty hard for their money to PAY you for your knives.

Let the discussion commence, and know that I will come down like a ton of bricks if insults and name calling comes out to play.:)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
This, Steven, IS going to be both exciting and educational!
Great idea for a new Thread...

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
I have a spreadsheet that I've built and refined over several years.

all I put in is Blade length, Material, Handle Material, and Fitting Material and it figures my price pretty well.

took me over a year of tracking my time very carefully to get consistent results but I'm happy with it so far.
 
One of the first things I asked Tony Bose when I met him at BLADE this year, was why he only charged about half of the market price for any of his knives. Literally many of the people flocking around his table on opening day were there to win a knife in the drawing and sell it for a profit shortly thereafter.

He said he knows he could sell them for more money, but he charged a fair price for them, and anyway, he wasn't trying to get rich--he just likes to make good knives (paraphrased).

"Giants" in the knife making world could nearly always charge more than they do. My own opinion is that the top makers are trying to balance what is fair for themselves and also the other custom makers who make great knives but don't have their notoriety. Basing pricing on cost of materials and hours worked seems to me the fairest and best way to do it, rather than the "what's the most I can get for this" rationale.
 
This could be a very good thread. It will also be interesting to see if and what the differences is between maker and buyers opinions.
Personally I can't go by hours/materials anymore. As I my hands are slowly getting worse I have many more hours in making the same knife than I did years ago. So an hourly charge isn't fair for me.
 
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Hey Kevin,

Let the discussion commence, and know that I will come down like a ton of bricks if insults and name calling comes out to play.
Click to expand...

Stop you are scaring every one.

Kevin Jones...Cyber Enforcer!...Code Name: The Brick!

:D
 
black mamba said:
Basing pricing on cost of materials and hours worked seems to me the fairest and best way to do it, rather than the "what's the most I can get for this" rationale.
Click to expand...

I think that's the only way to do it rationally.
But my friends and I are always asking the same question: how much is an hour of our work? Can we make a parallel with other profession, for example a machinist?
What's the knifemaking's knowhow's value?

I don't know!!! I suck at it.
This is going to be very educational for me.

Javi
 
Hi BM,

Basing pricing on cost of materials and hours worked seems to me the fairest and best way to do it, rather than the "what's the most I can get for this" rationale.
Click to expand...

Seemingly intelligent way to go about figuring out a price. However, you are at best partially correct.

Manufacturing costs (fixed and variable) are only a starting point.
 
I'll be interested to hear the experienced thoughts here. A recent post by Les Robertson in AV8R's show thread shed some light on the question of why makers don't raise their prices (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8654989&postcount=26). It was a question that I had been thinking about for a while, and more so the more I learn about the custom/handmade knife industry. Very interesting!

Now I'll sit back and let the experienced continue the illumination. :)

Cheers,
Jesse

EDIT: Gidday Les, I was just plugging your wisdom -- I guess I didn't need to!
 
Javier Vogt said:
I think that's the only way to do it rationally.
But my friends and I are always asking the same question: how much is an hour of our work? Can we make a parallel with other profession, for example a machinist?
What's the knifemaking's knowhow's value?

Javi
Click to expand...

Good machinist's around here get $12.00-$15.00/hour to start.

Drop point hunter time wise, maybe 20 hours(I'm asking)$240.00-$300.00 + $50.00 in materials=$290.00-$350.00.....that's fair for a GOOD drop point hunter and we know that good makers regularly charge that...but it seems like makers starting out want to charge that too, even if the knives are not that good, and that is a good point to keep the discussion going.

When I was tattooing, and I quoted an hour for the work, and it took 3 hours....the owner of the shop said "when you are still learning, you can't charge the customer for the time it took you to do it right, only for what is "fair"."

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Javier Vogt said:
I think that's the only way to do it rationally.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree. Makers are selling in a highly competitive market. What if it takes you twice as long to make a given knife as another maker who is similarly situated in terms of market position? Assuming comparable style and materials, should your knife command twice the price because you have twice as many hours in it?

Roger
 
RogerP said:
I'm not sure I agree. Makers are selling in a highly competitive market. What if it takes you twice as long to make a given knife as another maker who is similarly situated in terms of market position? Assuming comparable style and materials, should your knife command twice the price because you have twice as many hours in it?

Roger
Click to expand...

Hey, that's ME!!!! ;) :o
 
RogerP said:
I'm not sure I agree. Makers are selling in a highly competitive market. What if it takes you twice as long to make a given knife as another maker who is similarly situated in terms of market position? Assuming comparable style and materials, should your knife command twice the price because you have twice as many hours in it?

Roger
Click to expand...

I said that based on the assumption of knowing the value of your hour.
And that's my problem now.
The thing is how much do you want to earn. Obviously, if you think your hour's value is 100 bucks, and the result is a bad piece, you're in trouble...

May be this can be separated in two separate questions.
How can I value two different pieces of mine?
And
How can I value my work in comparison with other's?

Javi
 
I cannot use the "wage plus materials" model, I run my own tool shop and the going hourly rate for tool shops in Fairbanks is quite a lot higher than one could expect in knifemaking. I am, however faced daily with the tough decision of how to spend my time, an hour making knives is an hour I did not spend in the tool shop, it's an expensive choice to make. I ultimatly split it half and half, about 30 to 35 hours of each per week. I look at long term demand for pricing decisions, my sales are pretty much seasonal, so at the end of any given season, if I don't have a bunch of knives on the counter and my wait list has gotten longer, I raise the prices a little, if at the end of the season I still have a bunch of my knives on the counter or my wait list is shorter I don't raise the prices. I have never lowered prices, I am sure most would agree that would be a big mistake, that's why raising prices should be done only after carefull concideration. My wage when knifemaking comes out to about $20.00 an hour, that's low for skilled labor in this area, and I am happy with that, I am happiest when making knives.

If I had a million dallors, I'de make knives till it was all gone.:D:D
 
Hi Javi,

How can I value my work in comparison with others?
Click to expand...

Congratulations...you have answered the first question as to "How do I determine my position in the market."

You compare, side by side your knife to your competitors knives.

As many of your competitors as you can...Apples to Apples. Not their knife with a stag handle and yours with Giraffe bone (I hope you aren't using that). In other words, the cost of the materials should be approximately the same.

Ok, keep going

"The woods are lovely dark and deep. But you have promises to keep, and miles to go before you sleep!"
 
This has been a real nightmare for me. I have people tell me, and by people I mean collectors, that I'm not charging enough for the knife I produce. But my thinking is if I overprice myself then the list of customers go down. A drop point hunter with sheath is $400. If I add damascus, depending on the pattern it goes up. If it's a frame or a takedown it's considerably more. Some guys are real pro's at frames and takedowns, I am not, it takes me a lot longer to pump one of those out. I'm getting to the point where all the mistakes I've made in the past don't happen anymore. Mistakes are wonderful things and teach you a lot. I try not to make them as much as I used to. :)
 
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