Custom knife question

M

mrheythere

Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
5
I know nothing about custom knives.

I would appreciate your help with a question I have about the industry.

When a custom knife maker produces a custom knife and sells it, is it considered an acceptable practice for the knife maker to continue to make the same or substantially similar knife again? So theorectically two collectors might meet on the street and both have copies of the same knife in their pockets. Or are custom knives considered one of a kind and not to be duplicated by the maker?

Please help me understand this. THANKS
 
If the knife is of customer design it would not be acceptable to reproduce it unchanged for general sale without customer approval.

If it is of maker design the maker owns the right to reproduce it.
 
george tichbourne said:
If the knife is of customer design it would not be acceptable to reproduce it unchanged for general sale without customer approval.

If it is of maker design the maker owns the right to reproduce it.
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I agree George, and IMO the change would have to be fairly significant. Say not just a change in handle material or damascus pattern but a design change.
 
There are no hard and fast 'rules' on this, so it's an issue of each maker's individual policy to decide.

Many makers will make a 'model' knife, if you will, and there will be direct replications. Many successful makers do this, and I think it is dead smart.

Now then, the maker can and usually will outfit the knife with varying changes of materials: Handle, blade steel, bolsters, inlay choice, infinitum. So there knife is the same, but different.

George, I agree that the design commitment is up to the maker. That said, if a maker agrees to a true custom order and is wholly satisfied with the outcome, this should be addressed beforehand: May I make the knife over again?

Don Hanson, for example, made me my 'Sinistre' knife with some consideration from me on style and materials. (Only some.) If he got pounded with orders, he would not be out of his right to do it over. Hey, folks saw that knife and want that knife. I didn't make it--Don did.

Again, it's all in the communication. The glory of custom/handmade knives is how we interact with the makers. Rules and protocol are subject to change on a personal level.

.02 cents: And then again, I may be dead wrong. :p

Coop
 
It entirely depends... If the knife is based on a traditional pattern, for instance, the maker may have done it hundreds of times. Harry Morseth, Rudy Ruana- they were't making Art, but working tools, so the need to be different in every knife was not there. Some makers are still strict to there own styles, Bob Dozier... Roger Massey, Dr. Lucie.. endless list. You can find slight variations. Those being more art focused, and esp. high end, it is more individualized, one of a kind. But, both are being done today.
And it has to do more with the makers inherit reasons for what he does. (just my own Two cents.)
David
 
Informative answers. I purchased my first and only modestly priced custom knife ($750 or so) and understood the maker would make other knives similar to it using different blade material, handle and blade shapes, and other distinguishing variations. This made sense because $750 is pretty modest in the knife industry. I was suprised to see for sale a duplicate of my knife, the only difference being the damascus pattern on the blade. Seeing the duplicate caught me off guard because as a newbie purchasing his first knife I had assumed that I would never being able to find a twin out there. But I guess the answer is that many of what the uninformed think are "one-off" knives are just "not massed produced limited production knives." Do I have this correct? Thanks for the info.
 
I'm not sure I'm following your use of the term "custom" knife. Do you mean that you designed the knife and had it built to your particular specifications by the maker? Or was it a model that the maker has produced in the past and you wanted one with a particular handle material or other such "customized" option?

Roger
 
mrheythere said:
But I guess the answer is that many of what the uninformed think are "one-off" knives are just "not massed produced limited production knives." Do I have this correct? Thanks for the info.
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I think if the knife is a standard model that the maker builds and sells, I would expect to see more like it in the future, even with the same combination of materials. If a piece is going to be a one-off, the maker will go out of his way to state that to the buyer.
 
There is one maker that I know of on this forum that does not use any patterns and each knife is unique, while many of his are similar, they are different in many ways. Todd Davison has told me many times, NO patterns used. While that may change, I have 9 of his and none are identical in shape or size. The steel speaks to him. Much like a sculptor carving out a statue, knowing not exactly how it will turn out. But it is an art form to him. IMHO that is a true custom.
James
 
RogerP said:
I'm not sure I'm following your use of the term "custom" knife. Do you mean that you designed the knife and had it built to your particular specifications by the maker? Or was it a model that the maker has produced in the past and you wanted one with a particular handle material or other such "customized" option?

Roger
Click to expand...

Sorry, I am a newbie and do not know or use the terms correctly. I went to a knife shop and someone sold be what they referred to as a custom knife created by a prominent maker. I had no designed input and the knife was already made when I arrived on the scene. I asked for no customized options. I left with the impression (which could have been entirely made up in my mind) that although the knife style would be "reused" by recombining materials and changing the blade shape, there would not be another like mine (with its specific blade shape, hnadle shape and materials choice and combination).

It seems that my expectations and understanding, whether sales induced or a fiction of my own mind, are incorrect as to industry standards and expectations given how the knife was acquired, my lack of input, and the modest price. I am learning there is a lot middle ground between the true custom and mass production.

This creates a whole new problem, because a lot of the charm for me in the owning the knife was that it was the only one like it on the planet, but alas, this is incorrect. I hope some of this makes sense.
 
commodorewheeler said:
I think if the knife is a standard model that the maker builds and sells, I would expect to see more like it in the future, even with the same combination of materials. If a piece is going to be a one-off, the maker will go out of his way to state that to the buyer.
Click to expand...

Yes, this makers makes a significant number of knives that have similar attributes, which I did not know nor was told at the time of purchase. Of course, I would not have bought this knife if I was told there were few in the market floating around.
 
When I was a shyster, I actually sent a threatening letter to a well know knifemaker who was advertising a knife model for sale that my cleint had designed. The maker had never asked my guy.for permission..he just made a few more and put them up for sale. But in this case, my client had done all of the design work, specifically for use in a certain "B" movie that I'm sure than nobody ever saw except on cable late at night, so it was a bit different. The maker had no input whatsoever into the design and produced the knife exactly as it appeared in my client's drawings.
 
I have seen what appears to be the same knife made in the hundreds by some makers. There has been much debate by collectors, and makers, as to whether these knives are actually customs.

If you commision a knife that is going to be made from a design of yours, make sure that you have a signed agreement with maker that you are the only person that design can be made for.

Some makers only do one-of knives. They never make the same knife twice. Many makers will produce both one-of knives and regular models. The regular models help to pay the bills so that they can make the one-ofs that are what they consider to be the most rewarding. Some makers only make regular models, and don't make one-ofs at all. The reason for this is most likely monetary.

Only a few makers will work entirely off a customers design. Many more will work with the customer in coming up with the final design elements. Some only want the client to give them a basic idea of what they want, and from there these makers want complete artistic freedom to make the knife as they feel it should be made.

If you are purchasing a makers regular model, there are going to be lots more just like it. If you are purchasing a one-of, then you are never going to see one just like it made again. You can find both of those being sold by knife dealers. If it is a fairly low cost knife made from standard materials, there are likely many others just like it.
 
As a maker, I have certain styles that I do. While the profile is basically the same, each knife has individuality to it. Unless I;m making several for someone at their request, the bolsters otr gaurd and handle materials will be somewhat different. The pin patterns or use of mosaic pins will vary. Ultimately, no two will be alike, even though they are similar. If I make something on a whim, or very different, it will probably be the only one like it. If it is something designed by ther customer, it will be an only child. I may ask the client if I can use the design, but then I still won't make it the same as the original.

If it is understood that it is a one of a kind, it will be the only one.

A consideration, though, is that there is little new in the knife world after 3 millenia. There are new ideas, but often based on older designs. One can only expect so much individuality. And no one would expect a one of a kind Loveless.

Gene
 
mrheythere said:
Sorry, I am a newbie and do not know or use the terms correctly. I went to a knife shop and someone sold be what they referred to as a custom knife created by a prominent maker. I had no designed input and the knife was already made when I arrived on the scene. I asked for no customized options. I left with the impression (which could have been entirely made up in my mind) that although the knife style would be "reused" by recombining materials and changing the blade shape, there would not be another like mine (with its specific blade shape, hnadle shape and materials choice and combination).

It seems that my expectations and understanding, whether sales induced or a fiction of my own mind, are incorrect as to industry standards and expectations given how the knife was acquired, my lack of input, and the modest price. I am learning there is a lot middle ground between the true custom and mass production.

This creates a whole new problem, because a lot of the charm for me in the owning the knife was that it was the only one like it on the planet, but alas, this is incorrect. I hope some of this makes sense.
Click to expand...
MrHeyThere,

Your post is quite clear. Unfortuately, you are discovering the answer you wished wasn't so. You are also very humble and correct that there were a number of assumptions: Both by your as a buyer and coming at you from the salesman that guided you.

I suspect that if the sale hinged on the exclusivity of that model, the salesman used some liberty and indiscretion in closing your deal. Your beef really resides with the seller, and not the maker (Who probably had no idea he was bound to non-replication). And then again, the salesman may have not known.

If the knifemaker is a prominent as you report, you simply have a great knife. I have a few knives that I REALLY cherish, that I don't expect to be the only one in existance.

Enjoy it, nonetheless.

Welcome to Bladeforums. I hope you will stick around and use your real name. :thumbup: :D

Coop
 
Several years ago i bought 3 paintings from an artist. I discovered the same .. this artist had recreated the same paintings somewhere else. You figure an "artist " wouldn't find interest in doing that, but it seems so... It was disappointing,.. but it's life.
If your goal is something unique, you can find a lot of diversity in antique knives. And in most cases you won't see the exact same thing. just something to look at. good luck! Don't limit your options, and there are guys who are innovative enough to make every knife a new adventure. ..just have to ask.
David
 
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