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Custom Knives as investments?
- Thread starter SID
- Start date
KNIVES are GREAT investments! Not just any knives though. You have to do your homework. I LOVE knives! When I first started collecting, I bought a few just because I liked them. Then as I got "EDUCATED" I realized I had thrown money away. In other words after the new wore off I had to face the fact I would never be able to get my money back. I have since started to think about what I'm buying and most of all WHO I'm buying. You can collect and invest if you will leave most emotion out of your decision.
When you invest in knives you are investing not only in the knife but the maker who made it. Let me explain. It's just like investing in a stock. The company may have a great product but if they don't have good business skills they will fail. There is alot involved. Here are some questions you should ask yourself before investing. How does the maker market themself? Is their quality of work progressing? Is there a greater demand for their work than they can produce? Remember price and demand. What kind of character do they have? Are they respected by their peers? If not, RUN from them! Is making just a hobby for them? Do they have a built in DRIVE to succeed?
NEVER, NEVER invest in a knife without getting to know the maker first. Then don't just buy any knife. Buy what you like and consider how much you will have to INVEST in your collection. One more thing, always buy quality. It is better in the long run to have one GREAT piece than five average pieces.
You can not go wrong INVESTING in Fisk, Massey, Fitch, and Vince Evans. This is just my humble opinion though.
When you invest in knives you are investing not only in the knife but the maker who made it. Let me explain. It's just like investing in a stock. The company may have a great product but if they don't have good business skills they will fail. There is alot involved. Here are some questions you should ask yourself before investing. How does the maker market themself? Is their quality of work progressing? Is there a greater demand for their work than they can produce? Remember price and demand. What kind of character do they have? Are they respected by their peers? If not, RUN from them! Is making just a hobby for them? Do they have a built in DRIVE to succeed?
NEVER, NEVER invest in a knife without getting to know the maker first. Then don't just buy any knife. Buy what you like and consider how much you will have to INVEST in your collection. One more thing, always buy quality. It is better in the long run to have one GREAT piece than five average pieces.
You can not go wrong INVESTING in Fisk, Massey, Fitch, and Vince Evans. This is just my humble opinion though.
Knifes for investments are a joke IMO, i hate to tell you, i buy them because i love them, as investments your money is better off in a saving account no doubt about it and don't let anyone selling them tell you different!
I forgot to say i been collecting knifes for almost 40 years now, i know what i'm talking about, there are very few exceptions to knifes are not a good investment for sure, even in the long run your better off with 4% to 5% in your saving account.
If it's not fun forget it!
James
I forgot to say i been collecting knifes for almost 40 years now, i know what i'm talking about, there are very few exceptions to knifes are not a good investment for sure, even in the long run your better off with 4% to 5% in your saving account.
If it's not fun forget it!
James
One more unneeded comment here........
In buying ANYTHING that costs more than a few dollars, you really need to get educated; Coins, cars, watches, knives.......anything. Otherwise you will get burned unless you are very fortunate. Do your homework and you will be a lot happier with your purchases, investment or not.
In buying ANYTHING that costs more than a few dollars, you really need to get educated; Coins, cars, watches, knives.......anything. Otherwise you will get burned unless you are very fortunate. Do your homework and you will be a lot happier with your purchases, investment or not.
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To me knives are always a good investment. I am investing in my health, happiness and well being. To me knives give me a tremendous return on my investment, even if I never see a dime out of them.
APM, I mean no disrespect in any way. But the question was for 5 to 10 years. Intrest rates are very low right now. You are not going to earn 4 or 5 percent in a savings account right now. You might be able too in a cd though.
Lets say you could even get 3% in a savings account. It would take 24 years to double your investment, and 14.4 years at 5%.
If you are selective with what and WHO(again very important) you invest in you can easily beat those returns.
Above, using rule of 72. Again, only my opinion and hope you will take it as such.
Darby Neaves
Lets say you could even get 3% in a savings account. It would take 24 years to double your investment, and 14.4 years at 5%.
If you are selective with what and WHO(again very important) you invest in you can easily beat those returns.
Above, using rule of 72. Again, only my opinion and hope you will take it as such.
Darby Neaves
Les Robertson
BANNED
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- 3,565
Darby,
Comment's like the one made by APM "Knifes for investments are a joke" are obviously made by people who do not understand the custom knife market.
He further warns you not to listen to people who sell custom knives (like me).
APM, that is the same as telling someone don't invest with a Bank, Financial Planning Services Company or a Broker....after all they sell the products you will be investing in.
You recommended a savings account at a bank. What you don't think the banks make money off of your money?
Also, you forgot to adjust for inflation. Which would bring your Return On Investment (ROI)to around 2-3% at best.
One other thing APM. You didn't say what kind or type of knives he had been buying for the last 40 years. It might have been Franklin Mint knives.
For most of the proponents of not investing in custom knives here. I suspect they have little if any actual experience using custom knives as an investment.
I may be wrong. If I am I would be curious to know what knives were bought (and why), how long they were held for and what was the ROI (if any).
Once again I find myself in agreement with Tom Mayo and his "uneeded" comment.
Which is very appropriate for this thread.
Every successful custom knife dealer I know started out as a collector. Initially I became a dealer meerly to qualify for a better "tax position".
But in order to become a dealer I had to invest over $10,000. To keep the business going I had to do my homework and buy the "right" knives from the "right" makers.
Many of the makers I work with today are guys I met well over a decade ago. These were not "big" name makers...then. However, They were makers with ability and desire.
These makers and Paul Basch were responsible for teaching me the "investment" aspects of custom knives early on.
I know many of you are thinking "well as a dealer you get a discount". Yes, this is true. However, it is still a risk. After all I have to then sell the knives.
Every investment has elements of Risk. The more you know about what your buying, the more you will know the amount and type of risk you are taking.
By the way, do you know how to tell by looking at a knife for less than 3 seconds if a maker is left handed, right handed or ambidextrous?
If you don't you are probably not making a good investment!
Comment's like the one made by APM "Knifes for investments are a joke" are obviously made by people who do not understand the custom knife market.
He further warns you not to listen to people who sell custom knives (like me).
APM, that is the same as telling someone don't invest with a Bank, Financial Planning Services Company or a Broker....after all they sell the products you will be investing in.
You recommended a savings account at a bank. What you don't think the banks make money off of your money?
Also, you forgot to adjust for inflation. Which would bring your Return On Investment (ROI)to around 2-3% at best.
One other thing APM. You didn't say what kind or type of knives he had been buying for the last 40 years. It might have been Franklin Mint knives.
For most of the proponents of not investing in custom knives here. I suspect they have little if any actual experience using custom knives as an investment.
I may be wrong. If I am I would be curious to know what knives were bought (and why), how long they were held for and what was the ROI (if any).
Once again I find myself in agreement with Tom Mayo and his "uneeded" comment.
Which is very appropriate for this thread.
Every successful custom knife dealer I know started out as a collector. Initially I became a dealer meerly to qualify for a better "tax position".
But in order to become a dealer I had to invest over $10,000. To keep the business going I had to do my homework and buy the "right" knives from the "right" makers.
Many of the makers I work with today are guys I met well over a decade ago. These were not "big" name makers...then. However, They were makers with ability and desire.
These makers and Paul Basch were responsible for teaching me the "investment" aspects of custom knives early on.
I know many of you are thinking "well as a dealer you get a discount". Yes, this is true. However, it is still a risk. After all I have to then sell the knives.
Every investment has elements of Risk. The more you know about what your buying, the more you will know the amount and type of risk you are taking.
By the way, do you know how to tell by looking at a knife for less than 3 seconds if a maker is left handed, right handed or ambidextrous?
If you don't you are probably not making a good investment!
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2001
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- 534
Les, I hate to say it, but you just took a big peepee on a whole lot of people here
Les i don't think my comment that "custom knifes as investments are a joke" was a unneeded comment here since you have taken it on yourself too post here saying more or less buy them from me and there a good investment because i know what i'm doing.
I don't have one Franklin Mint POS, thank you, just top name custom makers.
I get 4.85% on my money with Bank of America!
Paul Basch is a good friend of mine for many years now, i have bought customs knifes from him and he never told me even once they were good investments, for him to say that i believe would have been unethical in his book.
Buy them because you love them, buy them because you want to use them, buy the best you can afford, as investments not in my book.
James
I don't have one Franklin Mint POS, thank you, just top name custom makers.
I get 4.85% on my money with Bank of America!
Paul Basch is a good friend of mine for many years now, i have bought customs knifes from him and he never told me even once they were good investments, for him to say that i believe would have been unethical in his book.
Buy them because you love them, buy them because you want to use them, buy the best you can afford, as investments not in my book.
James
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- Oct 1, 1999
- Messages
- 6,490
If you believe you can or you can't do something, in either case you're probably right.
There's not a doubt in my mind that Les knows how to make money with knives, as does Paul Basch. The big difference is that Les is far more open about it, not only how he does it, but how anyone can do the same. Les wrote a book about it, and I don't think it would matter if you were buying from Les or any other way. If you listen to what he says you'll be a more educated buyer. I find it hard to believe that someone could collect knives for any period of time and not learn how to shop wisely, with the thought of buying the best they can afford. My only real problem at looking knives as an investment is that you have to sell them to realize that return.
Still, if I look at my humble collection and compare what I spent to current value I'm way ahead, and I'm still very new to this, (four years not forty). If I have 20 years left I should end up with a very valuable collection. Thanks to Les and everyone that has added to my education and enjoyment of knives.
There's not a doubt in my mind that Les knows how to make money with knives, as does Paul Basch. The big difference is that Les is far more open about it, not only how he does it, but how anyone can do the same. Les wrote a book about it, and I don't think it would matter if you were buying from Les or any other way. If you listen to what he says you'll be a more educated buyer. I find it hard to believe that someone could collect knives for any period of time and not learn how to shop wisely, with the thought of buying the best they can afford. My only real problem at looking knives as an investment is that you have to sell them to realize that return.
Still, if I look at my humble collection and compare what I spent to current value I'm way ahead, and I'm still very new to this, (four years not forty). If I have 20 years left I should end up with a very valuable collection. Thanks to Les and everyone that has added to my education and enjoyment of knives.
APM,
As you can see from the number of post, I am new to the forums. I have not "learned" peoples personalities yet, but I'm starting to.
I did not get the same impression of Les's remarks as you did. I'm getting the feeling you ALWAYS collected as a hobby, for the pure joy of it. Not as an investment. Therefore you bought what appealed to you at the time without much thought of future appreciation. That is GREAT, if that is what pleases you. Some of us though, are thinking about how much we have in our INVESTMENTS and are making an educated guess on our purchases, again , similar to picking a stock. We are not buying into the whole sector, just trying to PICK the better "makers" with the best potential for that appeciation. This can only be done by leaving emotion out of it or at least curb it. I'm not saying I don't FALL for some knives, but I do stand back and think about the future before buying. Let me say it this way, I do not want all the knives Fisk makes. I want only certain pieces in my collection, special pieces. I am willing to scrimp and save in order to have a nice piece and will pass on the average. That is the differance between collecting and investing and still love knives.
One said we should not entertain this subject. I disagree. Just my opinion though.
As you can see from the number of post, I am new to the forums. I have not "learned" peoples personalities yet, but I'm starting to.
I did not get the same impression of Les's remarks as you did. I'm getting the feeling you ALWAYS collected as a hobby, for the pure joy of it. Not as an investment. Therefore you bought what appealed to you at the time without much thought of future appreciation. That is GREAT, if that is what pleases you. Some of us though, are thinking about how much we have in our INVESTMENTS and are making an educated guess on our purchases, again , similar to picking a stock. We are not buying into the whole sector, just trying to PICK the better "makers" with the best potential for that appeciation. This can only be done by leaving emotion out of it or at least curb it. I'm not saying I don't FALL for some knives, but I do stand back and think about the future before buying. Let me say it this way, I do not want all the knives Fisk makes. I want only certain pieces in my collection, special pieces. I am willing to scrimp and save in order to have a nice piece and will pass on the average. That is the differance between collecting and investing and still love knives.
One said we should not entertain this subject. I disagree. Just my opinion though.
Les Robertson
BANNED
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James,
Your opinion is welcome. I just prefer specifics as opposed to blanket statments. As to the collectability or non-collectability of custom knives.
I guess it's the fact that you and others in this thread, are "generalizing" about all knives that bothers me. A smart guy like you. I know you realize that some knives are a good investment.
James, maybe you are right. Maybe custom knives aren't a good investment. Maybe it was my investment in the people who make up the custom knife industry that is now paying big dividends.
Phil, I love that quote. It is 100% accurate!
C. Marlowe,
It's been a long day and Im a little tired. I need your help. What exactly do you mean?
Your opinion is welcome. I just prefer specifics as opposed to blanket statments. As to the collectability or non-collectability of custom knives.
I guess it's the fact that you and others in this thread, are "generalizing" about all knives that bothers me. A smart guy like you. I know you realize that some knives are a good investment.
James, maybe you are right. Maybe custom knives aren't a good investment. Maybe it was my investment in the people who make up the custom knife industry that is now paying big dividends.
Phil, I love that quote. It is 100% accurate!
C. Marlowe,
It's been a long day and Im a little tired. I need your help. What exactly do you mean?
- Joined
- Nov 4, 1998
- Messages
- 127
First off congratulations to everyone who sold a custom knife for more than they paid for it. That includes everyone from the makers, dealers, or individuals.
The number one rule to making money selling knives is to know who will buy the knife from you and what they will pay. Knowing what the buyer will buy and pay will make it easier for you chose knives to make offers on. This means you must go out and meet the public and get to know them on a friendly bases.
Here are a few ways to meet people who buy and sell knives. It is a way of doing your home work. Join a knife club and or get a table at a knife show. You will get to meet the makers, dealers and individuals who buy and sell knives. By joining and participating in a knife club you will find opportunities to buy and sell knives. You will learn what people will buy and sell knives for. Same thing happens at a knife show. You will get to meet people and see deals happen that the person buying a ticket will never see.
Join and support you local knife club. It is the starting point of doing your home work.
The number one rule to making money selling knives is to know who will buy the knife from you and what they will pay. Knowing what the buyer will buy and pay will make it easier for you chose knives to make offers on. This means you must go out and meet the public and get to know them on a friendly bases.
Here are a few ways to meet people who buy and sell knives. It is a way of doing your home work. Join a knife club and or get a table at a knife show. You will get to meet the makers, dealers and individuals who buy and sell knives. By joining and participating in a knife club you will find opportunities to buy and sell knives. You will learn what people will buy and sell knives for. Same thing happens at a knife show. You will get to meet people and see deals happen that the person buying a ticket will never see.
Join and support you local knife club. It is the starting point of doing your home work.
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
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- Mar 12, 2001
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- 7,385
About six Months ago, I brought up this topic. I did so because my tastes in collecting had changed and I was finding myself more interested in "custom knives" than production knives. I wanted to know if I should take some of my money, invested in other markets and move them into the knife market for the purpose of turning a profit.
Les responded and I realized that just as a profit could be made buying and selling fine firearms, watches, and coins, so could it be done with knives. BUT one must know the intricate details of the "market" or you will not turn much of a profit.
I have since read a great deal about knives and am now becoming a wise collector. While I certainly hope that one day my knives will one day be worth as much in cash as I paid for them, the only investment for me will be strictly the enjoyment of knife collecting. I simply will never have the knowledge necessary to be a knife dealer or the desire to collect knives for financial gain. I rather prefer to continue buying finer and finer knives and cutting the crap outta myself keeping them sharp....................Ira
Les responded and I realized that just as a profit could be made buying and selling fine firearms, watches, and coins, so could it be done with knives. BUT one must know the intricate details of the "market" or you will not turn much of a profit.
I have since read a great deal about knives and am now becoming a wise collector. While I certainly hope that one day my knives will one day be worth as much in cash as I paid for them, the only investment for me will be strictly the enjoyment of knife collecting. I simply will never have the knowledge necessary to be a knife dealer or the desire to collect knives for financial gain. I rather prefer to continue buying finer and finer knives and cutting the crap outta myself keeping them sharp....................Ira
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- 3,148
This is a great topic.
The custom knife world is full of niches.
Find a niche that you like. Learn about it in depth.
In my opinion, for investment purposes:
Travel to shows more than once a year.
Learn how to grade knives.
Learn how to spot refinished knives.
Learn how to spot "bad" knives-every maker turns out a dog once in a while.
Learn how to buy a knife that will still be in style in 5, 10 years down the road.
Learn to spot a maker on the rise.
Learn what handle materials will be stable after 5, 10 years in a dry gun safe.
Look for knifemakers are so good that competing knifemakers buy their knives for THEIR collections.
Look for makers who have mastered other aspects of knifemaking-engraving, scrimshaw, damascus, etc.
Look for makers that are members of an organization.
Look for makers that have a steady, cult following.
Look for makers that make less than 100 knives per year. 50 is better.
Look for makers that TEACH other makers how to make knives.
Look for makers that sell out -before-the knifeshow.
Look for makers with good communication skills and good marketing skills.
Look for makers that occasionally write books or are featured in book or magazines or who write for magazines.
The best unknown maker in the world is a bad investment.
In the end, try to combine as much of the above with a style of knife that you like.
I collect ABS maker knives. I prefer to buy Mastersmith stamped knives. I will purchase JS stamp knives from makers that I know will be a MS in the near future if the workmanship is clean.
I love to buy knives by the ABS triad (Fisk, Crowell, and Dean). Those are the makers that other ABS makers buy knives from for their collections. Why? because those guys are the great Teachers of the modern ABS. They are the masters to those who have come up in last few years and will be the masters for the decade to come. I will buy knives from others that are especially talented also, but will never be certain as to their appreciation.
Thats my niche. I enjoy it. No two ABS MS knives are alike. That adds to the pleasure.
I used to collect Microtech knives. I made good money when I dumped my collection, but I bought early and bought right. The knives had no soul, however. They were merely machines without character and long-term value.
The custom knife world is full of niches.
Find a niche that you like. Learn about it in depth.
In my opinion, for investment purposes:
Travel to shows more than once a year.
Learn how to grade knives.
Learn how to spot refinished knives.
Learn how to spot "bad" knives-every maker turns out a dog once in a while.
Learn how to buy a knife that will still be in style in 5, 10 years down the road.
Learn to spot a maker on the rise.
Learn what handle materials will be stable after 5, 10 years in a dry gun safe.
Look for knifemakers are so good that competing knifemakers buy their knives for THEIR collections.
Look for makers who have mastered other aspects of knifemaking-engraving, scrimshaw, damascus, etc.
Look for makers that are members of an organization.
Look for makers that have a steady, cult following.
Look for makers that make less than 100 knives per year. 50 is better.
Look for makers that TEACH other makers how to make knives.
Look for makers that sell out -before-the knifeshow.
Look for makers with good communication skills and good marketing skills.
Look for makers that occasionally write books or are featured in book or magazines or who write for magazines.
The best unknown maker in the world is a bad investment.
In the end, try to combine as much of the above with a style of knife that you like.
I collect ABS maker knives. I prefer to buy Mastersmith stamped knives. I will purchase JS stamp knives from makers that I know will be a MS in the near future if the workmanship is clean.
I love to buy knives by the ABS triad (Fisk, Crowell, and Dean). Those are the makers that other ABS makers buy knives from for their collections. Why? because those guys are the great Teachers of the modern ABS. They are the masters to those who have come up in last few years and will be the masters for the decade to come. I will buy knives from others that are especially talented also, but will never be certain as to their appreciation.
Thats my niche. I enjoy it. No two ABS MS knives are alike. That adds to the pleasure.
I used to collect Microtech knives. I made good money when I dumped my collection, but I bought early and bought right. The knives had no soul, however. They were merely machines without character and long-term value.
bandaidman
Basic Member
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- Feb 11, 2001
- Messages
- 1,149
Les, I post the "negative" aspects because they are quite real.
You seem to know a lot about knives but advocating knives as an investment is not prudent. The fact that your daughters made money selling toys does not make any other collectible a good investment. Just look at that "market" now, fairly dead wouldn't you say? The "great success stories" in collectibles are generally short lived and are not repeated.
Collectibles are poor investments because they involve a high degree of risk. Let me explain my point of view.
Collectibles are risky because the market is excessively volatile. What is hot one moment is "not so hot" the next moment. Sports cards, toys, coins , and yes knives have all experienced this phenomenon. Buying habits and economic conditions change frequently. You can do all the "homework" you want, the only thing you can count on is change and no one can fully predict what that change will be. I think this is especially true in a personality/brand driven field like custom knives. Sure ther are makers who will bring more in resale but here is in an extreme example: what if that "hot maker" got arrested for "kiddie porn"? Might put a damper on his "aftermarket value".
Collectibles are risky because the market is very small and too easily manipulated. The market for pearl knives was dramatically effected by the buying habits of one man, his death had the opposite effect. There were some "Nascar" trading cards produced about 15 years ago and the price for them went through the roof primarily due to the actions of one individual. Don't forget that the market for Nascar collectibles is much larger than the market for custom knives. Those cards have much less monetary value now. Are custom knives immune from this? I think not.
Collectibles are risky because there are fundamental problems with liquidity. The ideal investment should be highly liquid (ie quickly and easily sold for cash) for as little cost as possible. There are very few buyers in the overall picture for even the most popular makers and this limits liquidity. The internet has helped with this but it would be difficult to move a large quantity of expensive blades quickly and get "full value". It is easy to sell a few hundred dollars worth of knives, how about $10,000 or even $100,000? We are talking about an investment worth our time here aren't we? One of course could use a dealer or give a volume discount but that can significantly effect the actual return on the investment. There also tends to be a price ceiling where the buyers evaporate and this in turn limits the growth potential of the item as an investment (many buyers for $200 knives on the rise, less for $1000 ones and even fewer for $10,000 ones)
Many moons ago I worked at a baseball card shop and was often bemused by people who could not understand why the shop would not buy their "hot card" at retail...Many traditional investments (stocks, bonds etc) have transaction costs that are very low. Any dealers out there who want to make a 1% commission to sell a knife? Try 10-50% (or more) for many collectibles. This factor is often ignored by those who advocate collectibles as an investment.
I could go on and on (sure seems like it though doesn't it?) but here are my out of the box investment thoughts....some might think them weird
1. Live on less than you make
2. The borrower is slave to the lender. Pay off your all your debts (including your house if you can). It is a great feeling not to have payments on anything but your house. It might mean not driving a fancy car or having a boat or buying lots of stuff (not bad things in and of themselves). I do not plan on doing much investing outside of my retirement plan until I am completely debt free. Some will question this, my response is would you take a loan out against your house if you owned it free and clear to invest in anything (stocks, knives, beanie babies, etc)?
3. Save at least 15% for retirement. If you have a 401k with a match do that first, otherwise Roth IRAs. I prefer mutual funds as my primary investment as they reduce your risk. Single stocks are also pretty volatile and risky and I don't buy them (for every Microsoft and IBM there is also an Enron) . Many people are scared of the market right now, but let's face it if the US stock market goes in the crapper there will be NO market for knives or any collectible at all....except as defensive weapons in a post apocalyptic world
4. Get rich slowly. Actually that is a name of a great book by a fellow named Bill Spivey. Also read the "millionare next door". There are very few "get rich quick" schemes that actually work. And talk of 100%+ returns is a get rich quick scheme isn't it? At 12% (the average rate of mutual fund returns over the last 70 years or so) you DOUBLE your money every 7 years. Not bad.
5. Give to your church or charity, you will get much greater returns from that!!!
Look there is nothing wrong with buying, enjoying, and selling knives. It is quite possible to make enough to increase your collection. Just don't have delusions of achieving any real wealth...
Signed
preachy old bandaidman
BTW Les I buy talonite and stellite knives because my first love is fishing and I hate rust and I like the properties of the material....Mayo, Blackwood, and Simonich form the bulk of my 8 knife collection. Also have a Murray Carter one. It would rust in a heartbeat but I thought it was really cool.....so I bought it. As far as company 401ks go I challenge you to find one that invests in custom knives!!!
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2001
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- 18,959
I'll try to make this as short as possible, being that it's late.
First off, I appreciate your well thought out posting, and I agree with your general premise.
As far as your 'golden rules' go, you only left out 'Be well insured, in all aspects'...I'm with you on the rest of them, do so, and have done so for at least the last 15 years.
Also, I think the 'Rule of 72' shows a 100% gain after 7 years at 10% growth, but I might be wrong on that count.
Collectibles market...you nailed that part accurately.
So, is it disingenuous for a purveyor to make a blanket statement that any item is a good investment, irrespective of caveats, I would think so...YMMV
Mutuals? You betcha, Mutuals as a long-term investment are hard to beat.
That said, and giving Les, et al. credit here, if a person is an advanced collector, with planetary alignment and economic conditions being favorable, a substantial return on a 'XYZ' collectibles investment is possible, though not probable.
IMNSHO, for the 'average' collector, said possibility, i.e. probability, diminishes radically...
Again, thanks for you post Dan.
Stay sharp, and keep those 'Band-Aids' handy...lol
--edited for clarity--
First off, I appreciate your well thought out posting, and I agree with your general premise.
As far as your 'golden rules' go, you only left out 'Be well insured, in all aspects'...I'm with you on the rest of them, do so, and have done so for at least the last 15 years.
Also, I think the 'Rule of 72' shows a 100% gain after 7 years at 10% growth, but I might be wrong on that count.
Collectibles market...you nailed that part accurately.
So, is it disingenuous for a purveyor to make a blanket statement that any item is a good investment, irrespective of caveats, I would think so...YMMV
Mutuals? You betcha, Mutuals as a long-term investment are hard to beat.
That said, and giving Les, et al. credit here, if a person is an advanced collector, with planetary alignment and economic conditions being favorable, a substantial return on a 'XYZ' collectibles investment is possible, though not probable.
IMNSHO, for the 'average' collector, said possibility, i.e. probability, diminishes radically...
Again, thanks for you post Dan.
Stay sharp, and keep those 'Band-Aids' handy...lol
--edited for clarity--
Mel,in a earlier post you said,
I bought that what appealed to me, and had the good sense to buy that what soon became 'most desirable'...
When I started buying knives, I applied the same logic..."What do I like?" Well, I found out that I liked Randall designs, I liked Loveless designs, and I liked Jess Horn designs.
Why did you buy those knives? Why didn't you buy the CHEAPER knives of other makers that were copying the EXACT designs? It was more than luck, wasen't it? Maybe a little HOMEWORK involved! Maybe you had the good sense not to throw your money away.
DR.Dan,
Have you been talking to my wife? You sounded like several sermons she has given me. Except you didn't call me a knife maker groupie. There is much WISDOM in what you said. I thank you. ALL would benefit if they followed your "TEACHING".
The average person collecting knives will NEVER make a solid return on their purchases. Most will not break even. EVER! There are over 4000 knife makers out there. People are keeping them in business.
Then there are the FEW. The makers who climb to the top. The ones who MADE it. Like a sperm, if you will. Maybe by Divine, luck, fate, hard work, who knows why the SELECT few make it. They do the right things at yhe right time for a majority of the collecters to agree they(the MAKER) are VALUABLE. If one of their knives goes up in value, they all go up. Like a painting.
THESE knives require a premium to possess. People want to have the best. They want the rare. They want to aquire something SPECIAL, something no one else has. It's human nature. That is where the RETURN on the INVESTMENT comes in. Not everyone will sell at the same time. Some never will. This keeps the prices rising. You also have to realize there will be many other collectors in the future. Some will have the desire and the means to want the BEST.(BEST being who the majority says they are) I have driven myself crazy trying to figure out why Picassos are worth so much. Well, people talked, people bought, he didn't paint enough for everyone to have one, now everyone wants one because they don't have one, SO the price goes up. Collecting and investing simultaneously? I think so.
Anthony, you gave a great list of do'es and don'ts. I hope people will take heed to your list and quit throwing their money away.
This should drive it on home,
How many of you will sell your mint Fisk knives that you bought 5-10 years ago for the exact price you paid for them then? How many will commit to sell your Fitch knives your buying now for the exact amount your paying, in 5-10 years? I THOUGHT SO!
I bought that what appealed to me, and had the good sense to buy that what soon became 'most desirable'...
When I started buying knives, I applied the same logic..."What do I like?" Well, I found out that I liked Randall designs, I liked Loveless designs, and I liked Jess Horn designs.
Why did you buy those knives? Why didn't you buy the CHEAPER knives of other makers that were copying the EXACT designs? It was more than luck, wasen't it? Maybe a little HOMEWORK involved! Maybe you had the good sense not to throw your money away.
DR.Dan,
Have you been talking to my wife? You sounded like several sermons she has given me. Except you didn't call me a knife maker groupie. There is much WISDOM in what you said. I thank you. ALL would benefit if they followed your "TEACHING".
The average person collecting knives will NEVER make a solid return on their purchases. Most will not break even. EVER! There are over 4000 knife makers out there. People are keeping them in business.
Then there are the FEW. The makers who climb to the top. The ones who MADE it. Like a sperm, if you will. Maybe by Divine, luck, fate, hard work, who knows why the SELECT few make it. They do the right things at yhe right time for a majority of the collecters to agree they(the MAKER) are VALUABLE. If one of their knives goes up in value, they all go up. Like a painting.
THESE knives require a premium to possess. People want to have the best. They want the rare. They want to aquire something SPECIAL, something no one else has. It's human nature. That is where the RETURN on the INVESTMENT comes in. Not everyone will sell at the same time. Some never will. This keeps the prices rising. You also have to realize there will be many other collectors in the future. Some will have the desire and the means to want the BEST.(BEST being who the majority says they are) I have driven myself crazy trying to figure out why Picassos are worth so much. Well, people talked, people bought, he didn't paint enough for everyone to have one, now everyone wants one because they don't have one, SO the price goes up. Collecting and investing simultaneously? I think so.
Anthony, you gave a great list of do'es and don'ts. I hope people will take heed to your list and quit throwing their money away.
This should drive it on home,
How many of you will sell your mint Fisk knives that you bought 5-10 years ago for the exact price you paid for them then? How many will commit to sell your Fitch knives your buying now for the exact amount your paying, in 5-10 years? I THOUGHT SO!
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 7,353
Originally posted by bandaidman
3. Save at least 15% for retirement. If you have a 401k with a match do that first, otherwise Roth IRAs. I prefer mutual funds as my primary investment as they reduce your risk. Single stocks are also pretty volatile and risky and I don't buy them (for every Microsoft and IBM there is also an Enron) . Many people are scared of the market right now, but let's face it if the US stock market goes in the crapper there will be NO market for knives or any collectible at all....except as defensive weapons in a post apocalyptic world
Just a side note: invest in unmanaged index funds. Those track the market exactly and have low or no management fee, etc. Keep in mind that *no* manage fund has ever beaten the market over a 30 year period - which is the right horizon for your retirement.
Cheers,
JD