Custom Slip Joint Discussion

brightred said:
todd,

good questions!

i agree that on the knives you posted, the common joint looks better than the sunk joint, knife open and closed. but we know that there are certain traditional patterns that have either sunk or common joints. my decision which knife pattern to to put in my pocket is based on the intended use (easy or tough tasks) and if i like the knife "naked" (sunk joints) or in a pouch sheath (common joints).

to give an example: the stockman has common joints, so it needs a pouch sheath, otherwise the trousers are ruined. but the bolsters are rather narrow and short, so, although the tang is exposed, the blades are not held very strongly, compared to the sowbelly where the joints are sunk on one side. here the bolsters are long and wide (so are the tangs), that makes a stronger knife. and then, i don't think that the sowbelly has less flow than the stockman, just because the bolsters are much wider than the tang .

so i think the equation sunk=weak and common=strong is only correct if you don't change the knife pattern, but the width and length of the tang and the bolsters.

best regards,
hans
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Hans,

Nice knives.
That is what I'm talking about.
If you have a sunk joint, the bolsters will be wider than the tang, right?

I want the tang to go full width of the bolsters.


TA
 
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Chuck Gedraitis Knives said:
What it all comes down to is pivot placement, the size of the tang and the height of the spring.

Put the pivot a little lower than center and you can fit a wider blade into the handle but when closed you have more of the tang corner sticking out.
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Chuck,

If you ever fig. it out let me know???? :D

Thanks!

Todd
 
bigal2me said:
If you have a sunk joint, the bolsters will be wider than the tang, right?



TA
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Not necessarily, look at the Ray Cover Wharncliffe on page one. The tang is the same size, or slightly bigger than the bolster...
 
This thread is a bit of a quiz and mystery... ;) :confused: I know you are talking about slipjoints, but it's not limited to them?

OK, the conversation and the name about the tang sitting 'proud' in the closed position has a proper acronym: P.E.T. (Protruding Edge Thing) :p

My personal preference and a point I look at with makers is this avoidance. It may make for a more flowing knife open, with full bolster, but you are robbing Peter to pay Paul. It carries the PET when closed. That said many of THE most prominent makers still exercise this in the design of their knives. (Barry Davis, Kaj Embretsen, Frank Centofante, and others)

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Here is a knife I own, which probably cannot be designed any other way. It is a lone inconvenience to an otherwise beautiful knife.

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Often a maker will create a bolster which has a protrusion to cover this edge, and it doubles as a small guard.

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Probably why I like the 'Copperhead' style.
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Lastly a few makers have figured out how to do both: WIDE blade and not edge...

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If all knives had no PET it would be a dull world. :D But here are some examples.

Coop
 
I've always thought that makers that use the hidden "PET" do it for a reason. More like a knive to cary dress pants or the like, to keep the knife from hanging on anything in the pocket. While the raised "PET" is more of a user or everyday type that the user will cary in the pocket of every day type pants. I could be wrong, and that is more than likely.
The hidden type also has an added benifit of having a Semi-gurd for the blade. I like and make both styles.
 
Most of the old traditional knives had the common joint, but don't forget a about the old ROBESON POCKETEZE which had sunken joints and was named Pocketeze as it was easy on the pockets. The Robeson Pocketeze trademark dates back to 1914 and was popular for many years after.

Here is interpretation, but I don't know if it is completely right. When I picture the farmer working and using a strong knife with a common joint they put that knife in the bib of their overalls, so they did not really care about pocketeze. The guy in town wearing slacks prefered the pocketeze and his wife prefered that he carried the pocketeze too so she didn't have to keep repairing his Sunday slacks.
 
Rusty McDonald said:
I've always thought that makers that use the hidden "PET" do it for a reason. More like a knive to cary dress pants or the like, to keep the knife from hanging on anything in the pocket. While the raised "PET" is more of a user or everyday type that the user will cary in the pocket of every day type pants. I could be wrong, and that is more than likely.
The hidden type also has an added benifit of having a Semi-gurd for the blade. I like and make both styles.
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Rusty,

When you make a traditional style of slip joint, can you get both?

The no P.E.T. and the FULL width of the bolster w/ the tang ?

That is all I was trying to make the collector here a weir of. On a traditional pattern.
That is if you don't start manipulating the design and pattern to get both?

And like I said before, why did the old timers make them that way? With a P.E.T.?
If you CAN get both? Not just on my knives.:confused::)


Todd
 
I dont think you can have both unless the spring is considerably smaller than normal, altering the design like you said.
as to why the old slip joint makers raised it, I realy dont know. would be intrested in finding out though.
 
Rusty McDonald said:
I dont think you can have both unless the spring is considerably smaller than normal, altering the design like you said.
as to why the old slip joint makers raised it, I realy dont know. would be intrested in finding out though.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking stronger joint? Right?

TA
 
I agree, it does Makes a stronger joint with more material in the pivot area and more area for the back stop, so the blade will be less likely to over pivot in heavy use.
 
And maybe stronger spring? As Rusty mentioned.
A number of makers of linerlock and lockback folders have suggested over the years that having the tang not stand proud (PET) on a closed kinfe is very desired, and should be achieved...some, not all makers.

On the contrary, traditional and historical slipjoints often have the PET (Thanks Coop).

I don't know whether it is stronger joint is the desire for the common joint. I do agree that open, the common joint is more attractive and flowing line..

I'd like to know also, and do appreciate your bringing it up Todd!
 
Hi Todd,

Very interesting to read about. I have knives with both common and sunken joints from you (and other makers). I guess that a good thing with the sunken joint is that the knife is more pocketfriendly. I like the look of it when it is closed but the more robust look of the common joint when the knife is opened.

But some knives are in between, aren´t they? A mix of sunken and common? What do you call a knife made with common joint but made a way making it look like a sunken joint, like a copperhead, Buck 110 or maybe a mid lock PJ Tomes Trapper? Are all lock bladers common joint maybe?

Back to your question: I guess that I prefer common joint, but not on all knives.
 
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