Custom Waving

Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
87
Who does/has done custom waving on folders? What is the best way you have found to do it? Please post pics. I'm looking at waving a few folders such as possibly the zt 0200, benchmade rift, or the spyderco stretch, and I'm wondering how best to do it, as in how and where to make the cut and how to shape it aggressively enough to come out but not aggressively enough to take my pocket off my pants with it after a couple months. Any thoughts would be appreciated, I've seen a few stories around the forum before but never a list of them. Thanks guys.
 
Charlie Mike has a ZT 030x waved. He's also gotten a few Spydercos waved. Whether he does the work himself or not, I'm not sure. I'm almost positive that the ZT he waved was done by someone else. I think he might ahve done a few Spydercos himself. For waving a Spyderco, all you have to do is remove a bit of the blade stock around the spyderhole.
 
Charlie Mike has a ZT 030x waved. He's also gotten a few Spydercos waved. Whether he does the work himself or not, I'm not sure. I'm almost positive that the ZT he waved was done by someone else. I think he might ahve done a few Spydercos himself. For waving a Spyderco, all you have to do is remove a bit of the blade stock around the spyderhole.

Can you be any more specific? A copy of a spyderco edited it paint would be more than adequate. Do you suggest radiusing the cut at all?
 
I'll do you one better. Gimme a sec to dig up a youtube vid. These are all Charlie Mike vids.

EDIT: ZT 030x
[youtube]m_R1r8NP8Ok[/youtube]

This isn't a Spyderco, but you can wave a Spyderco one of two ways. Here's one way
[youtube]zL872ss1l_c[/youtube]

and here's the other way that I first mentioned.
[youtube]wueoR3GO7JU[/youtube] fast forward to 2:11
 
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Thanks for the post but doesn't really help a ton. I'm not found of removing that much stock blade to get the wave nor was the instruction that technical. Maybe I'll just wing a cheap knife and tell everyone how it goes.
 
I have heard of the classic zip tie method but I was looking for a more..... idk exactly... stable method. I've heard that the zip tie is of course durable but it does move slightly along the hole and that really tears up pants.
 
Do you have experience removing metal and have the right tools like a Dremel tool? I suggest using a sharpie to black out material you want to remove and make sure it looks right. It works best close to the pivot and would be good for you to look at the shape of production waves. Once you cut you can't add material back. Also want to make sure you don't heat the blade up too much.

I will say that I don't think there is enough blade sticking out on the Rift to make it work. Blades with a thumb hole or oval and finger ramps work best.
 
Experience and right tools, dremel, grinding wheel, sanding etc. I do realize i have to watch the heat treat obviously and I will make a feel drawings in photoshop before i cut anything. As far as placement yes obviously physics states the wave works better the closer it is to the pivot so it doesn't "throw" the knife. I have been looking at all of emerson's waves for reference. As far as the rift goes from my drawings I've landed on the very end of the recurve on the end closer to the handle as the most likely wave location.

and whats the easiest way to post pics so i can show you what i mean a little easier
 
photo testing

bf1.jpg
 
Experience and right tools, dremel, grinding wheel, sanding etc. I do realize i have to watch the heat treat obviously and I will make a feel drawings in photoshop before i cut anything. As far as placement yes obviously physics states the wave works better the closer it is to the pivot so it doesn't "throw" the knife. I have been looking at all of emerson's waves for reference. As far as the rift goes from my drawings I've landed on the very end of the recurve on the end closer to the handle as the most likely wave location.

and whats the easiest way to post pics so i can show you what i mean a little easier

Keep whatever tool you're using at the low RPM range and by liberal with dunking the blade in water to cool it down if it does heat up too much. You should be fine with the heat treat that way.

EDIT: Seems like the easiest way to wave a Rift would be to just cut a notch out. Some of the cold steel knives have "wave" openers that just use a little notch. The thumbstuds are in the way though. I think BM uses studs that screw together with a torx head. Should be easy to remove.

58LAK_Cold_Steel_AK-47.jpg
 
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I thought about the thumb stud but I would like to retain it so I have another method of opening besides the wave, or the tiny deployment hole the thumbstud would leave.
 
Here is my rough cut so far, ignore the lines, the blacked out portion is what i would remove. Any thoughts?

stretchwave2.jpg
 
I cut the front of the hole out on a centofante and it worked great. I also was my proof knife for my wife saying"you will cut your finger off" when I showed her youtubes of Emersons. at the end of they day diy is cool but it is a shell of a true factory waved emerson or waved spyderco
 
to some degree thats true but if for instance the machinist at spyderco went home and cut himself a wave I would say he could do it just as well as the factory. here we are not looking at any inherent difference between the factory and my garage, just the skill the dwells in each. I am not putting myself at all in the same category as such a craftsman I'm just saying that it can certainly be done just as well if not better than at the factory, just like reloading your own ammo.
 
Here is my rough cut so far, ignore the lines, the blacked out portion is what i would remove. Any thoughts?

stretchwave2.jpg

From what it looks like, if you're only cutting the portion of the blade that is blacked out, it looks like it is too little cut- it looks like the wave is curved, and thus would be harder to catch, harder to release, and tear up the pocket more- I'd say go for the line perpendicular to the blade. Which one did you think Charlie Mike removed too much blade stock on? I've watched Charlie Mike with a mixture of interest, mirth, and judgements, but his treatment on the ZT didn't look too bad actually. I say this as someone who would have a heart attack if he turned my g-10 police into his, but if he's treating them like the ZT, it doesn't look too bad.

Alternatively, you could try to go the spyderco p'kal way, and ADD a wave that screws in- not sure about actually boring out and creating the threads, but if you wanted, add another piece of steel to act like a wave and save the hole.

Zero
 
Saving the hole doesn't bother me too much. I actually think you could get better thumb traction on the two radiused prongs. Why do you think the curved edges will tear up the pocket more? There are no sharp surfaces for material to catch/cut/drag on and if you put the radius 'pillar' of steel in the junction between your pants and your pocket it should whip the blade out marvelously. I think charlie mike took too much of almost every blade except the zt, while grinding on the karambit he said he had taken off about an 1/8th of an inch across the entire top curve of the blade. I'm looking for the most functional and non-intrusive method of waving possible. The line perpendicular to the blade is an option but that would place the wave further from the pivot point causing the knife to be pushed forward during deployment in a very awkward fashion i think. Further, as to catching the wave, the curve of the blade also shows the increase in pressure as the blade is pulled from the pocket which be steadily increasing until the apex of the thumb hole. If that cut didn't deploy reliably I would keep cutting until i reached that apex or reliability be achieved.
 
Saving the hole doesn't bother me too much. I actually think you could get better thumb traction on the two radiused prongs. Why do you think the curved edges will tear up the pocket more? There are no sharp surfaces for material to catch/cut/drag on and if you put the radius 'pillar' of steel in the junction between your pants and your pocket it should whip the blade out marvelously.
I think that it might bring it out marvelously, but if you look at the way spyderco waves and emerson waves, they either are straight on, or curved outward, not inward. Observe emerson: http://www.emersonknives.com/ekPinktactical.php
spyderco: http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=226

As they are experts, in the literal definition of having it as their jobs, I'd believe them. Something I'm sure Sal could answer better than me. I'll try though: you're trying to catch the pocket- and if you catch a ball, do you catch with a fist or open hand? You need as much area to catch as possible. I'm actually working on carrying a delica wave weakside back pocket- and it doesn't engage every time (practice, different angle maybe). Making the curve inwards lowers the chance of catching. That's why Spyderco went with a deeper wave hook but straight, and Emerson has a shallower but more obtuse angle- two ways to deal with the problem (note: never so much as played with an emerson. Just using my assumptions based off waves I have used).

It would take a toll on the pockets as if it did engage each time, it would not necessarily engage in the same place, as the curvature doesn't guarantee that, so you'd catch a smaller surface- so more force over smaller surface= more wear. Not sure if you've had waves, but if you use them frequently- you quickly find out what your favorite pants are by how bad the pockets are.

Finally, your hole would be just that: a hole. While I agree with your take on Charlie's waving here:

I think charlie mike took too much of almost every blade except the zt,

I disagree here:
while grinding on the karambit he said he had taken off about an 1/8th of an inch across the entire top curve of the blade. I'm looking for the most functional and non-intrusive method of waving possible.
If you want function, you HAVE to take that top off. It's what I was talking about above- reference the endura wave again- the hook is straight, but clear of ANY other metal. The metal that is nearby just serves to interfere and lower chances. Really, it might not be as aesthetically pleasing for you, but if function is what you want, Charlie Mike is right: you gotta take off part of the top. That's how he created the ZT, which I actually liked. I love CM, and though I may not like the aesthetics of his other waves, he was designing the spyderco way- in the dark, in pursuit of function over appearance.

Finally, again, I urge you to look at the P'kal, below. In the spyderco version, it's threaded and removable- awesome. But if you want function and less intrusive, the additive might be better than the subtractive- welding a part to the top of the blade.
http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=267
 
Wow... thanks for the compliments.

I do all my waves at home. Since 2005. I use a Dremel and (recently) a belt grinder. The ZT was an experiment in a smaller wave hook and I was amazed at how well it turned out. I can wave it every time from jeans, now that I have trained with it a bit.

I have waved a 200 and to do that, I made a cut with the cut off wheel and popped out the thumbstud. The hole was used as the basis for the hook. Then take enough off the top to make the hole/hook accessible to your pocket lip. And ... Radius the cuts by all means if you value your pockets.
 
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