Customer Service.... Things that make you go hummm.....

The local BM dealer has high prices.
The major mall retailers here do not know the names of the knives in their display cases and, if you ask to handle a knife, they cannot find an example amongst all the little boxes under the display case and can't open the display case itself.

Walt Welch got banned from a forum?
How commendable.
BTW, Walt, I have used the super flashlight you sent me and will write to you soon.
Thanks.
 
The funny thing about malls is that Spyderco products are not alowed in any mall in Jacksonville Florida. Neither is Cold Steel and some various other products. The malls say the knives are to agressive looking. Maybe Sal needs to make a call.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com





 
Re sheeple mall managers in Jacksonville -

AAARRGGHH!!!

One other consideration:

Lots of folks out there still ain't on the Net. If you don't have Internet access, and you can't come by my office to look in my closet, my service is terrible!


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
One thing that seems to have escaped attention is that any dealer selling via the 'net is doing so as an international business.

Buried down here in Western Australia (a great place, but a million miles from anywhere), internet dealers are the only way I can get hold of any decent selection of knives. Local stores have a small range, and new models can take a year to reach here.

And if I buy from the USA, I pay about half the price I would in a local store for the same make and model.
As a couple of examples, a Leatherman Wave sells locally for the equivalent of $145 US, a Cold Steel Recon tanto for around $160 US.
Unless it happens to be a knife I want without waiting (average shipping time seems to be around 10 days) I don't buy locally.

Not that it will affect any Australian manufacturers - there aren't any knifemaking companies here.
 
Mall venders? Yeah right.. They sell more kitchen knives and the cheap production stuff. Even with my limited knowledge, I wind up knowing much more than they do. My range carrys a few Benchmades. But they had no clue what I was carrying with the Operator and the Sabenza..

Every internet dealer I work with gives me an education with every purchase.

I am going to give one local guy a try. If he is sharp enough to know to carry the Mad Dog line, he may turn out to be a good source for lots of stuff..



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Bubba
 
I live in Ann Arbor (Michigan) and we really have no local knife dealers, except for what the department stores carry in a small case atop their counters. This is the land where politically correct started, so knives and firearms are frowned upon. Thank goodness for the internet dealers. I have, during the past year, dealt with A.G. Russell, Northwest Cutlery, and KnifeCenter of the Internet... all of whom have given outstanding prices and excellent cutomer service! I couldn't be happier!
 
Speaking of malls, last week I took my son-in-law to the local Boise mall cutlery store. No one working there on a pre-Christmas shopping day was over 21! My son-in-law asked to see the Cold Steel Kukri in the case. The kid said, "I'm not supposed to let you handle it unless you are really interested in buying it because it is extremely sharp and I don't want you to hurt yourself." I asked him why he was only interested in the safety of those who were not going to buy? He looked at me like a deer in headlights. I said, "How do you expect me to become interested in buying that knife if we can't handle it? Even the local car lot let's you test drive!" He got the knife out for us. We didn't buy it. We were satisfied.

I usually buy from the Cutlery Shoppe because it is nearby. They have lots more in their showroom than in their latest catalog. Seems to be some of everything they have ever had in any catalog, no matter how long ago. I really like their product line and prices but recently they stopped ordering pieces for me. I used to let them add a model they didn't stock to their next order--not a special order for me--but they won't do it any more. Invariably, the model I want is the one they don't stock. Customer relations have started to slip--maybe I'll give them another try.
 
Personally, I try to never buy from my local shop. Why? Because the last time I walked in there and asked the guy questions I got a some very questionable answers in return. Plus, and this probably only affects me is he won't let me buy knives either. Because I'm under 18.

One the other hand I've gotten GREAT, GREAT sevice from both ABC-Direct and Chai Cutlery, plus better prices too. And if I ever have a question to ask I know I'll either get the truth or a honest "I don't know but I can try to find out".

Sincerely,
Adam
 
Storefront service has been terrible in every store that I have been in. Sometimes rude, sometimes pleasant, but always unknowledgeable of the product.
The sum total of what most of them know about the technical aspects of modern knives is that "ATS-34 is the best steel", and they are even wrong about that!!!
Few workers know the difference between locking mechanisms, they call them all "lockbacks" no matter how they lock, and you are lucky if they know which one you are pointing to is a Benchmade. Forget trying to find out what the handle is made of, what blade styles it comes in or any other simple question like where the knife is produced (pop quiz: are CRKT knives produced in Colorado like I was told at a shop? I don't think so!).
My stories run the gammut for retailers. Every time I go in I end up either educating the workers and managers, or I end up with an insulted intelligence like the time Arizona Knife Source tried to convince me that the Emerson Commander sucked (one of the most well made sub-$200 folders around!) and that the CRKT Mirage was a very good Microtech SOCOM knockoff. Yes, the co-owner really said, repeatedly, that the Mirage was just like the SOCOM in shape and design and just as high of quality as a Microtech for a much better price. He said that it even LOOKED just like a SOCOM. I could not figure out what he was talking about or what he must have been smoking. It was no coincidence that they carried neither Microtech nor Emerson products at the time, although they had a few Microtechs on the shelves as trade-ins. Now that they have managed to start carrying Microtech, suddenly they Microtechs are the best, but they still can't get Emerson's Productions, so they still think the Commander sucks. See the trend?
I could not even list all the stories of how many times I have gone into a knife shop (even the good ones that specialize in knives like The Knife Shop in Phoenix, The Cutler's Cupboard in San Diego or Edge of The World in the Bay Area) and they don't know the names of the knives or anything about them. I have even had to inform the managers of these stores of when knives were going to be discontinued and what new models were coming up. The manager of The Knife Shop in Phoenix had a Benchmade Brend Talon 2 on the shelf up until a year ago when I told him it was discontinued. He had no clue that that knife had been out of service for quite a long time! Then he discounted it to $60 as a discontinued item! What a fool!
Trying to call on the phone and get a response is similarly ridiculous with store front knife retailers. I called one shop and spoke to the Asst Manager and asked if they carried the Emerson Raven. I was told that they definitly had it (which of course they didn't), and that they "carried all knives". Yeah, right.
Not only are storefront prices horrible, like $230 for a BM Auto, $200 (with tax) for a Benchmade Axis, $500 for a regular old Sebenza, $450 for a Microtech SOCOM, $500 for a Mission Knives MPK (in the one store that I ever found all these great knives), etc, but the service is horrendous and they are completely lacking of knowledge of the product.
Tell me, what advantage do we get from a retailer? There is not one positive side except that we get to fondle the knife, and you know what? I can fondle all the knives I want at a Show and buy them for a discount too. I can also call up any internet dealer if I am near them and drive to their home and fondle the inventory. I have done both. If I do have to buy a knife without being able to handle it through the many various means, I can order it from one of the nice internet dealers and if I don't like it when I get it, they will take it back.

Internet dealers, as opposed to storefront retailers, are all spectacular. Not a one of them that I have dealt with has been less than an expert on modern cutlery. I can not say enough good about the internet knife dealers. They are courteous, knowledgable and quick in service. Soon enough, everyone is going to be buying from the i-net. It may "only" be %10 of the sales now, but give it time, this thing is new.

Someone mentioned that more knife makers should take the opposite approach and USE the internet intead of avoiding it. Look at some examples of people that have used the i-net to market and their sales have skyrocketed. Black Cloud ain't doing too bad. How many here would have ever heard of Black Cloud knives if they didn't have a website? I have only met two kinds of people that know about Black Cloud knives: Those that read about them on the internet, or those that are familiar with them from The Riddle of Steel seminars. Not even people at knife shows know of Black Cloud knives, because they never get booths at the shows. Almost all the marketing, what little there is, is done over the internet. James Brothers are selling more now that they are advertising, whereas no one knew who they were when Arizona Knife Source and a few other knife shops were the only places carrying them. Microtechs have become the standard through the forums. Look at how many people are buying Sebenzas now compared to a year ago when no one had them around these parts. And I have to give credit to Benchmade for having practically the first knife forum out there, creating the first i-net "knife cult" with customers completely dedicated to the company; but they are now backing off for some reason. Benchmade has pulled out the human forum moderator, taking away the personality of the place and making it a mechanical thing, and it is no coincidence that the "Benchmade Cult" has since dissapated. The Cold Steel forum never did take off because there was no PERSON there to answer questions. That is what the i-net is about: information, and the i-net dealers can provide tons of accurate information, as well as the companies, if only they would use the medium provided.

Mad Dog is a perfect example of a masterful USE of the internet as a marketing tool. Mad Dog' knives were unheard of only a year ago or so, and now he has a waiting list over a year long, his own dedicated cult, and they are worth more than you paid for them right after you buy them! Not a penny spent on magazine ads, nothing more than some good old hype and a good product to back it up. All of that is due to an engenius marketing approach that began on www.recdotknives a year ago. I still remember the first time Earl Stewert came on out of nowhere and started his marketing of Mad Dog's great knives. Look at the empire it has built, through a little savvy marketing on the internet.

If Benchmade and Spyderco, among the other lagging companies, could get a clue and start USING the internet instead of scorning it, they could make use of the most powerful, wide-open, (practically FREE!) marketing tool of today.

Sincerely,
J. Thaddeus Hornbaker



[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited 01 January 1999).]
 
i only hope john johnson at robbinsdale safe and knife is reading this thread. john is the hired help at this knife store in minnesota and has knowledge of the business that just doesn't end. i believe he alone must make up 75% of the floor knife sales. this i believe is evidence that a well run store with excellent staff can survive. they have all the latest factory and all the greatest customs one could desire. the internet gives me my daily fix(cheaper than mags) and lots of knives i NEED, but the personal service and conversation john provides each customer is priceless. i have bought numerous knives from john and lots from the internet and consider them both necessary niches in the knife world... thanks stevep....



i don't suffer from insanity; i enjoy every minute of it...
 
I'd have to give a split vote here. Like SteveP said, the guys at RFG in Robbinsdale are great. Just wish I lived closer, since from 200 miles away, I just don't go there very often! Prices are reasonable. Higher than online, but waaaaaay lower than a mall store. I don't think anyone can beat their selection of factory knives, and they carry some interesting custom stuff too.

That being said, otherwise my worst day dealing with an internet source is better than my best day with any other shop I've ran into up here selling knives. The most new models I've seen was in a mall store just before Christmas, but the prices were totally unreal. Try MSRP or even Higher on new models like the Axis, and the only discounts were on CRKT models, of which they had a ton. And like most everyone else has commented, the staff did not have a clue as to what they were selling...one thought the $59 CRKT Apache was the Axis!
Tried to pick up a knife at Wally World in Moorhead MN a couple years ago. Friend wanted a Buck Crosslock, they had one, but refused to sell it to me because the clerk couldnt' find the box to put it in!
there are two sporting goods stores within 3o miles of here that carry knives. The one right in town has a display of one to five year old model Buck knives, some fillet knives a company up here makes, some odds and ends in blister paks, and a funky looking skinner somebody ground out of a circular saw blade that has been sitting in their case for four years! The owner of that store thinks that his Frost Cutlery plastic handle lockback is a neat knife. Enough said?
wink.gif
But, he is a decent guy, and has shown an interest in the stuff I make here, even if he doesn't want to stock any.
The other sporting goods store is the biggest individual retailer in the area....mostly fishing and high end hunting gear. They do have more of a selection....Buck, Scharade, Gerbers, custom fillet knives, a display of Spyderco's, mostly models a year old or more, and a half dozen Benchmade older models like the Leopard and Spike. Spyderco's at retail, Benchmade at MSRP +.
More than anything else their attitude is, don't bug me. Don't ask to handle anything. Don't ask if we can get other models. Don't come up to the counter unless you want to buy it and get out fast, since time is money. A little has to do with the clerks having no idea what they are selling, but a lot of that has to do with the owner of the shop, and the way he has his help terrorized by all the ways he tries to control everything happening in 'his' store, from the closed circuit camreas everywhere, to the microphones at all the service counters so he can listen into conversations between customers and staff. No kidding.

Works for me though, since I got a couple sales just before Christmas from tourists visiting the area looking for a custom or expensive production knife for a present. The one shop blew them off, and the owner at the other gave them my name and suggested they talk to me.

Overall, I would say that there are very few retailers out there of what we would consider the 'major' brands like Benchmade and Spyderco that bother to stock the newest and latest models, and fewer still that know what they are selling or have anywhwere near the price and service and KNOWLEDGE of what they are selling compared to the internet dealers I've done business with.

and that's just my two cents
madpoet
 
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