Customized or custom?

sogflash

sogflash

Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
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I see this way to often. People saying they have a custom (insert production knife model) because they sanded the screws, stonewashed the blade and put new scales and a different pocket clip on it. Is that really what you'd call a custom knife, and not just a customized knife?

Am I just nitpicking? I thought a custom knife would be something different that a modified production knife.
 
If someone is calling their modded production knife a custom, it's only to make themselves feel better about their "pimped" knife...

It's like all these makers claiming they're making "mid techs" these days:rolleyes:
 
Not even close.
"Customized"
The only thing custom I have done are forged a few blades from scratch. I have a batch that I water jetted for future use. But that to me is also not custom even if the rest of the work is.
Custom is hand made, hand machined etc. Even CNC work can be custom to an extent.
Customized is , new handles and new finishes. Maybe even new hardware or a conversion of some sort.
 
Custom should mean that the knife was built to a customer's specifications. That said, a lot of "custom" knives out there today don't fall under that criteria.
 
To be honest I am quite sick of the lazy terminology. Half the time people cant even list who did the actual work. I am actually more hesitant to buy a pimped knife because I have no idea if the person knew what they were doing. To me a modified knife is either like I said, modified, customized, or pimped. In some cased destroyed or ruined. NEVER custom.
 
gooeytek said:
Custom should mean that the knife was built to a customer's specifications. That said, a lot of "custom" knives out there today don't fall under that criteria.
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That's very true!

I've bought knives that fall under the "custom" category, but they weren't customized to my exact specifications. So what do I call them then:confused:

It starts to get a little philosophical, but "custom" is kind of a subjective term when you really think about it.
 
sogflash said:
I see this way to often. People saying they have a custom (insert production knife model) because they sanded the screws, stonewashed the blade and put new scales and a different pocket clip on it. Is that really what you'd call a custom knife, and not just a customized knife?

Am I just nitpicking? I thought a custom knife would be something different that a modified production knife.
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I agree. It would be like buying a Ruger GP-100 revolver and replacing the grip inserts and calling it a custom revolver.

I still refer to Randall knives as being semi-custom if you want to toss out another term. By the same token, Bark River knives would also be semi-custom using the same logic.
 
22-rimfire said:
I agree. It would be like buying a Ruger GP-100 revolver and replacing the grip inserts and calling it a custom revolver.

I still refer to Randall knives as being semi-custom if you want to toss out another term. By the same token, Bark River knives would also be semi-custom using the same logic.
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You see, this is the problem.

There are too many terms that get lost in translation. I'm not saying your assessment of the term "semi-custom" is incorrect, but where does one draw the line to say "this is no longer semi-custom, it's now a full-custom".

What about the term midtech? Does that mean the same thing as semi-custom? Or even "factory custom" like ZT has been throwing around, what the heck does that mean? If I throw some of Gnolebs custom hardware on my 0562, is it considered a "factory custom" now too?

These questions are rhetorical btw...
 
Rycen has a very simple definition as a Sticky in the Custom exchange.
I think in terms of 'definition' it's quite obvious.....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knives-are-not-Custom-customized-isn-t-custom

So.
If you have a production knife, and spend $1K 'customizing it' it's not a custom.
It's a 'customized' production knife.

It's origin is what creates the 'categories'

If it starts life as a production knife, it will end life that way, regardless of what work has been done to it.
 
PURPLEDC said:
To be honest I am quite sick of the lazy terminology. Half the time people cant even list who did the actual work. I am actually more hesitant to buy a pimped knife because I have no idea if the person knew what they were doing. To me a modified knife is either like I said, modified, customized, or pimped. In some cased destroyed or ruined. NEVER custom.
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You and I haven't agreed much lately, but this is perfect.

I see 'customized' whatever and I usually run.
Just too many people doing it, and not enough people doing it correctly.....
 
Custom is something built for a single customer to his specifications.
Customized is anything that you or someone modified to your specification.
Handmade is handmade.
Mid tech is lame marketing slang.
Production is production.
 
The difference between Bark River knives and Randall knives is that people traditionally order from Randall and choose options for their particular knife where as with Bark River, I don't believe that is an option other than after the fact.

Origin..... okay, if you buy a custom knife from a knife maker (material reduction method) and he has made hundreds of this particular model or shape, is it still a custom knife? I can distinguish between say Great Eastern Cutlery which is known for near custom levels of quality in a slip joint, but they perhaps made 500 of the same knife during the same batch with some scale material variation.
 
There has been a lot of discussion on terminology.

For example, some people call Shirogorov and Medford knives "mid-tech". But according to the definition of custom as being made by one person, Shirogorovs and Medfords are closer to "custom" than actual "midtechs" by Jon Graham, Brad Southard etc. since Jon and Brad outsource the machining for those knives - the machining isn't done in house on those knives whereas it is on Shirogorovs and Medfords.

Someone brought up the issue of a knife being "custom" if the final edge was put on by the maker, even if everything else was done by machine, Shirogorov full customs for example. Well, by that logic, pre 1998 Microtech production knives are "custom" since Tony Marfione put on the final polished edge on most of those knives, and all the NC work and components were done on machines belonging to him.

When you start throwing around "custom", "semi-custom" and "mid tech" every which way it becomes a mess as these labels no longer allow someone to determine the provenance of a knife.

Some have proposed two designations instead of one: one label to indicate how the knife was made and one label to indicate who was involved in making it. For example, Tom Mayo's knives, made one at a time to fill orders, would be bespoke handmade knives - "custom" would be inherent in "bespoke" as it is for a particular customer'a specifications. Emerson's "custom" knives made for shows (not to fill orders) might be called "handmade custom" knives as they are shaped without NC machines by Emerson alone. Some of Tony Marfione's newest customs could be called "machine produced custom" knives since the blade grinds, chassis etc were formed with NC machines, but all the work was done and components produced in-house with Marfione performing the final fitment and sharpening. The Grimsmo brothers' knives could also be called machine-produces custom for example.
 
I'll throw out another term... "shop knife" which is consistant with the last post. Is a shop knife a custom knife? Is a knife made in Bob Dozier's shop a custom knife even though every one is hand made? Bob Dozier probably had no part in the making but it has his name on it.

If you have employees that particapate in the manufacture of a knife versus made by one person, is it still a custom knife?
 
22-rimfire said:
I'll throw out another term... "shop knife" which is consistant with the last post. Is a shop knife a custom knife? Is a knife made in Bob Dozier's shop a custom knife even though every one is hand made? Bob Dozier probably had no part in the making but it has his name on it.

If you have employees that particapate in the manufacture of a knife versus made by one person, is it still a custom knife?
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What if the maker is the sole assembler of parts?

What percentage of the parts can he/she source, or must he/she make them all? (i.e. kit knives, vs. something like a flint knapped blade where the maker sources 100% raw materials from the earth directly (and that HUGE ?gray? area in between))

It gets to be a fairly lengthy discussion, and I am not sure terminology is really as important as simply liking what you are buying and knowing that you are buying (in some cases) an idea as much as a knife. Unfortunately, it seems that terminology is used to obscure the true story or idea that you may think you are buying;)
 
22-rimfire said:
I'll throw out another term... "shop knife" which is consistant with the last post. Is a shop knife a custom knife? Is a knife made in Bob Dozier's shop a custom knife even though every one is hand made? Bob Dozier probably had no part in the making but it has his name on it.

If you have employees that particapate in the manufacture of a knife versus made by one person, is it still a custom knife?
Click to expand...

These are wholly my personal opinions:

If having work done or assisted by employees makes the difference between custom or not then many knives we consider "custom" would no longer be so, perhaps unfairly. Plenty of custom makers are a one-man operation and do all the work by hand but use knife-supply-source screws & hardware for example, whereas plenty of mass produced knives use in-house made hardware.

If Bob Dozier had no part in the forming, assembly or fitment of the knives leaving his ship then I would say they're production knives, even though they are handmade. It's a similar situation with Strider and Hinderer productions, where their respective owners have no direct involvement in the production of those knives.

I say that in part because a big consideration when it comes to buying custom knives is paying for the fact that the maker whose name is associated with that knife had a part in that knife'a creation. I am not saying that is a consideration for every purchaser of custom knives, but it is an important factor.
 
I think it's more like the definition of porn. Nobody can really define it but you know it when you see it.
 
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