Customized or custom?

[ev13wt]

The word custom is just totally misused in this hobby. As in plain wrong. Why do we invent meanings for words and run with them when the dictionary plainly states what the word means?


custom, adjective

made specially for individual customers:
custom shoes.

dealing in things so made, or doing work to order:
a custom tailor.


So if a maker hand builds a knife and there is only one of these (models) in existence, made for a person, show or purpose, it is a custom knife.

If there are two or more, or two or more that differ in handle material or such only, it is a hand made series. As such it is a hand made production knife?


Lets assume 10 steps for hand made:

1: Source steel (Make Damaskus)
2: Forge shape (basic outline stock removal)
3: Bevel grinding, breaking edges, jimping, etc
4: Heat treat
5: Grinding to final dimensions
6: Polishing, blasting, other finishing work
7: Sourcing parts (Does he make his own screws?)
8: Handle making, scales, shaping and finishing of handle
9: Final assembly and QA
10: Sharpening

So if one of these steps in outsourced to machines or bought from an outside company, take ten percent off.

 

[22-rimfire]

The word custom is just totally misused in this hobby. As in plain wrong. Why do we invent meanings for words and run with them when the dictionary plainly states what the word means?
<snip >

So if a maker hand builds a knife and there is only one of these (models) in existence, made for a person, show or purpose, it is a custom knife.

If there are two or more, or two or more that differ in handle material or such only, it is a hand made series. As such it is a hand made production knife.

Many custom makers have others do the heat treat and that is a selling point in its construction.

I think you have not cleared much up as there aren't many knife makers who forge their own stock, make all the little pieces of the puzzle themselves, etc...

Most custom knife makers can make anything you want within reason. But they have their regular patterns that sell well which are solely made by them. Using your definition, these knives are production knives. Using Bob Dozier as an example, I personally feel Dozier knives are custom made knives even though many are made by employees under his direction and many are not made for a specific customer unless you consider AG Russell a specific customer. I suspect that AG is Bob's biggest customer.

Many people say that they changed the oil in their car. But they actually took the car to a quick lube place and had it changed for them. There is a difference, but I don't think it is an important difference even though I tend to pick at people who commonly use this terminology.

 

[K.O.D.]

Personally , I find it stupid to take a low to mid priced production knife and pimp it. For example, adding $90 scales to a grip or mini grip is asinine. I can see customizing a ZT 561 etc, but when cost of mods meets or exceeds the cost of the knife , it's just stupid. It's better to spend that money on a custom or midtech.

 

[squarebox86]

In my opinion:
Custom knife - Every detail is designed to meet buyer's requirement/expectation
Designer knife - Fixed design from the maker with some options
Customized knife - A knife with any form of modification/aftermarket parts
Mid-tech/Production - No options available to the buyer

 

[ev13wt]

^^ Agreed.

Many custom makers have others do the heat treat and that is a selling point in its construction.

I think you have not cleared much up as there aren't many knife makers who forge their own stock, make all the little pieces of the puzzle themselves, etc...

Most custom knife makers can make anything you want within reason. But they have their regular patterns that sell well which are solely made by them. Using your definition, these knives are production knives. Using Bob Dozier as an example, I personally feel Dozier knives are custom made knives even though many are made by employees under his direction and many are not made for a specific customer unless you consider AG Russell a specific customer. I suspect that AG is Bob's biggest customer.

Many people say that they changed the oil in their car. But they actually took the car to a quick lube place and had it changed for them. There is a difference, but I don't think it is an important difference even though I tend to pick at people who commonly use this terminology.

If you can't do heat treat and out source it, it might be a valid and sane business practice. It will be the better knife in that case. But for me, the maker that does his own heat treat is "worth" more when it comes to custom knives. After all, the "art" of making a knife includes heat treating to perfection for your customers wishes. A Hammon style can be specific to a maker I think. -It also includes making a cool looking end screw.

If a certain makers style comes though in a custom knife, I appreciate that. I want that, it is part of why I choose the maker - I like his style!

I would say Bob Dozier "stardard style" knives are in fact production, not custom. High end, hand made production - ok, but not truly custom and certainly not one of a kind.

Because after all, there is a difference between "I changed my oil" and "I got my oil changed". Doesn't matter if it is big or small.

 

[ev13wt]

Personally , I find it stupid to take a low to mid priced production knife and pimp it. For example, adding $90 scales to a grip or mini grip is asinine. I can see customizing a ZT 561 etc, but when cost of mods meets or exceeds the cost of the knife , it's just stupid. It's better to spend that money on a custom or midtech.

I think a personalized low or mid production line folder is worth every penny. Why else would anyone buy rims for their low to mid priced cars?

The jump from a 90 dollar scale, acid and stone wash, special lanyard 100 dollar knife to a what you call midtech or custom is still a big jump money wise.

Only reason mid tech is so "popular" is because it sounds cool and fancy. A crk is mid tech. After all some dudes lay hand on the knife and grind parts of it and all are hand sharpened. Did CR jump on the fancy word bandwagon? Nope. I respect him for it too.

 

[asdf12345]

I think a personalized low or mid production line folder is worth every penny. Why else would anyone buy rims for their low to mid priced cars?

The jump from a 90 dollar scale, acid and stone wash, special lanyard 100 dollar knife to a what you call midtech or custom is still a big jump money wise.

Only reason mid tech is so "popular" is because it sounds cool and fancy. A crk is mid tech. After all some dudes lay hand on the knife and grind parts of it and all are hand sharpened. Did CR jump on the fancy word bandwagon? Nope. I respect him for it too.

CRK's aren't midtech, just as Striders and Hinderers aren't midtech. No work is being outsourced by a custom maker, who aside from the outsourced work does the final assembly, fitment, sharpening and perhaps blade grinding too all by himself. Hand sharpening isn't relevant as almost every production knife made today is hand sharpened with the final bevel being put on by hand. Are Microtechs midtech then too? Those are hand fit & hand sharpened by employees. How about Spydercos and Kershaws? Those are assembled & sharpened by hand too.

Added note: It's entirely possible that CRKs, Striders and Hinderers might actually exceed some true "midtechs" in terms of quality & performance. But they are production knives through and through.

 

[NorthernSouthpaw]

categorizing all the different ways a knife is made is a completely futile effort. Too many people with too many opinions on what should be considered what.
A very well known and respected maker said recently (paraphrasing here) that there is no real way to put this terminology mess in order, but what is important is that a maker is up front and honest with HOW they produce their product, and the customer being educated about the product enough to be able to decide if that is worth their investment.

 

[JB in SC]

categorizing all the different ways a knife is made is a completely futile effort. Too many people with too many opinions on what should be considered what.
A very well known and respected maker said recently (paraphrasing here) that there is no real way to put this terminology mess in order, but what is important is that a maker is up front and honest with HOW they produce their product, and the customer being educated about the product enough to be able to decide if that is worth their investment.

:thumbup:

 

[Charr]

Custom should mean that the knife was built to a customer's specifications. That said, a lot of "custom" knives out there today don't fall under that criteria.

That's pretty true as well. There aren't that many people who are still willing to make a knife that is truly for someone to their order specifications instead of just offerings some options on a model that is, for all intents and purposes, the same from one knife to another.

Don't get me wrong, I like those knives as well, especially since you can have a very good idea of the knife that you are going to receive through the forums and other avenues before you actually submit your order or before it is entirely finished, so you have a better idea of what you want and what options you would like.
It also gives the maker a more standardized production process, and means that they are able to produce much faster, and at a much more reasonable price for their customers (though we don't really see that in the secondary market as much unfortunately), so I don't see any real issues with this philosophy.
I would like to see more makers who truly made a complete custom knife, but that is a rare thing indeed, and I am also more than happy with the current market options, except for the lack of availability and the time required to get most of these knives.

categorizing all the different ways a knife is made is a completely futile effort. Too many people with too many opinions on what should be considered what.
A very well known and respected maker said recently (paraphrasing here) that there is no real way to put this terminology mess in order, but what is important is that a maker is up front and honest with HOW they produce their product, and the customer being educated about the product enough to be able to decide if that is worth their investment.

Also, I believe this is a truly critical part of out hobby and the knife business in general. I think this is absolutely the right idea.

:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[DAVE_M]

Production, Custom, Mid-Tech, Handmade, Forged...

The tree I used for kindling didn't care what the knife was called, it just knew my knife was sharp.

To add to the OP's question:

Customized = I, or someone else, modified my fixed blade to my specifications.
Custom = The fixed blade, that I commissioned a knifemaker to make, was made to my specifications.

 

[8steve88]

[video=youtube;xCW0TDikags]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCW0TDikags[/video]

That is custom knife making.
Adding parts, they may have been custom made, to an existing knife - it will only ever be customized. Not necessarily bad, some lovely knives out there with just custom made scales. If it were any other way I could tie my own lanyard onto a knife and say it was a custom knife.