Customs Community – A Responsibility?

[Kevin Jones]

As an active member of the custom knife community do you see an advantage to or perhaps even feel a responsibility towards helping to sustain and progress it?

Makers and dealers have a stronger financial interest in supporting the community with their time, money and resources than most collectors do. Or at least at the surface it seems they do.

If all collectors just reaped the fruits of the land so to speak in only being interested in the pursuit of their next knife rather than supporting knife publications, shows, organizations, forums and such would this over time have a negative impact on the custom knife industry?

In my opinion, the specific collectible in any collectible or art medium is only a part of what drives the overall to higher levels.

This subject has been on my mind as of late in hearing collectors stating they; don’t buy knife publications, don’t go to shows, don’t join clubs/organizations, don’t participate on forums etc.

Thank you in advance for your views and comments.

 

[betzner]

I am not so altruistic that I feel any kind of responsibility placed upon me as a collector. But as a societal element, I bear the same social responsibilities I would in any situation. But I don't think that causes me to feel I have a responsibility to support shows, magazines, etc. I go to shows, I subscribe to magazines, etc - but I feel no sense of responsibility. Though perhaps I have a responsibility to myself to do these things, if my collection is to be the best it can be.

Without trying to define it, I feel a sense of responsibility toward the makers I collect. It's a two way responsibility that is shared between me and the maker.

As a member of an association, I think there are responsibilities that each member bears, though some members may see their responsibility limited to the payment of dues. I am probably in category of membership. Though I feel I should do more, I am lazy and understand myself enough to know I won't.

 

[Russ Andrews]

Yes, there's a responsibility....most obvious for makers and dealers, but it's there
for collectors also....if they have hopes of financial appreciation, or just a love of the art.

If we look at those that we consider leaders...those whose work/views we most
respect, I think we'll also see people who give alot of themselves to helping others
learn.

 

[Marcel54]

I have a responsibility to myself to spend my hard earned money as wise as possible. So when I spend it on knives (that I do often I owe it to myself to make sure it is a "sound" buy. A "sound" buy means something different to everybody. For me it means buying the right piece from the right maker at the right price. For that I need to know as much as I can about the makers, the market and so on. So I visit shows, I read knifepublications, I talk to as much knifepeople as I can and I participate on the forums. That way I gain knowledge and in the same time I give back to that same community.

In the end I think that I have as much of a financial interest as dealers and makers because if I had only bought what I liked (in the last years) I'm sure I hadn't been able to sell or trade some of my pieces (at the right price), reinvest that money and further my collection that way.

Marcel

 

[Kohai999]

There is a big difference between run-of-the-mill makers, collectors and dealers, and "knife people".

Knife people ALL have a sense of community, and a compulsion to educate..Don Fogg, Larry Fuegen, Harvey Dean, Tim Hancock, Robert Loveless, Les Robertson, Dave Ellis, Paul Basch, Dan Delavan.....if you talk to any one of these guys, as an example, they could pretty much answer just about any question you have, and would be happy to do so.....you might just not be able to shut them up.:thumbup:

Education is probably the biggest responsibility that knife people have to the rest of the world.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I don't feel that it is a responsibility, or an obligation. I support the custom knife industry in any way that I feel makes sense to me, but I don't do it because I feel a sense of responsibility. I do it because I want to, and I enjoy it.

 

[Hmathews]

I really like knives and always have. I quit measuring my collection of customs with numbers and switched to pounds years ago. I have subscribed to some of the magazines since they were created, and buy the others when ever I see them. I have gone to shows since the early seventies and bought knives from nearly every venue available. I now make knives pretty much full time. I did all of this because I liked knives not because I felt any since of responsibility toward the knife community, yet I am, have been, and will be one of its supporters.

The since of responsibility I feel toward the knife community has been developed since I started making knives and comes in two areas. The first is to provide (for a price) the best knife I can make every time to the customer. The early knives weren't nearly as good as my current knives but they were the best I could do at the time. I don't apologize for them at all.

On another forum there is a thread about makers leaving the shows early. I won't. I feel that I owe it to the collector/customer to be there. I agreed to be there when I bought the table and the customers expect it.

The second area is to other makers or people that want to learn the craft. I think that STeven hit the nail on the head when he said the biggest responsibility was education. If this craft is to continue to survive and grow there are new generations of makers and collectors that need to be brought up to speed. The shorter their learning curve the better off we will all be.

I do this because I like to, but when I have to trash an expensive handle that didn't turn out quite right or have to sit at a table late Sunday afternoon with more makers in the hall than customers, the fun is gone and the responsibility has kicked in.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

.......Education is probably the biggest responsibility that knife people have to the rest of the world.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Thanks for putting that into words. I like that one.

 

[Erik Fritz]

There is a big difference between run-of-the-mill makers, collectors and dealers, and "knife people".

Knife people ALL have a sense of community, and a compulsion to educate..Don Fogg, Larry Fuegen, Harvey Dean, Tim Hancock, Robert Loveless, Les Robertson, Dave Ellis, Paul Basch, Dan Delavan.....if you talk to any one of these guys, as an example, they could pretty much answer just about any question you have, and would be happy to do so.....you might just not be able to shut them up.:thumbup:

Education is probably the biggest responsibility that knife people have to the rest of the world.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

well put

 

[xuesheng]

Interesting topic

One way to look at it is that as a collector, my investing dollar is really what supports the entire custom knife community, isn't it? Some makers would make knives even if no one bought them, but not too many. Dealers would have nothing to do without buyers. Shows and publications wouldn't exist other than as technical magazines and educational gatherings. So strictly from the point of view of the knife world as a commercial arena, there is no responsibility or obligation for the collector to do anything, even buy for that matter.

Another way to look at it is that custom the knife world is more than a commercial enterprise, it's a social community as STeven pointed out. If I want to be an active and respected member of that community, I need to participate and contribute more than simply buying knives to collect, use, sell, and trade. This is not really a responsibility or obligation but more a choice I make to be a part of the social group. As a part of that group the rules of civility require certain behaviors which could be considered responsibilities and obligations in a social context.

Finally, it can be seen from the perspective of the fine arts community. Certainly, the kind of knives we collect qualify for that desgnation. In the arts world there are a different set of rules or expectations which assign a burden of responsibility on the admirer and collector to help support the artist beyond simply buying the work. This is more about keeping the "art" alive and free from commercial pressures so that it can be as creative as possible.

I think the custom knife community is somewhat unique in that it incorporates all three of these aspects. Each of us needs to choose where we want to fall out - independent collector, member of community, or supporter of the art or any combination of the above. For me, it's really the choice of the individual - I don't expect anyone to play any role in particular. There certainly are advantages to us as individuals and the knife community in general to more participation and active involvement but I would draw the line at calling it a responsibility.

My comments are from the perspective of a collector. Makers and dealers probably have a very different perspective.

 

[ROBB]

The best way to support the custom knife community is to buy their knives.Some people can afford more than others.I subscribe to all the knife mags and buy books like David Darom's.I try to go to the 2 NYC shows yearly.
.

This subject has been on my mind as of late in hearing collectors stating they; don’t buy knife publications, don’t go to shows, don’t join clubs/organizations, don’t participate on forums etc.

I could understand why some people cancel their subscriptions to the knife mags.They have basically become giant fluff advertizements for knife companies & makers.There is never really anything negitive about any knives.I still get them cause once in a while there will be a good article & I like the pictures.I still like to sit back in a chair and read a magazine.
An important thing to do is to try to get some of the negitive laws repealed.Now in NYC a policeman can take away your knife if he can flick it open!!It happened to me.About 8 months ago I was visiting a friend in the Soundview section of th Bronx,NY and a cop saw the clip of my Endura in my back pocket.He said give me your knife and proceeded to try to flick it open and on the 7th or 8th try he was able to open it.Then he said this is a gravity knife and illegal to carry.I argued with him but he still pocketed the folder.These laws can do the most damage to the community.I read the edtorial in Blade mag that Germany is now making one handed open knives illegal and locking folders.The same thing can happen here!!
So its important to join organizations like KnifeRights.org or AKTI.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Interesting topic

One way to look at it is that as a collector, my investing dollar is really what supports the entire custom knife community, isn't it? Some makers would make knives even if no one bought them, but not too many. Dealers would have nothing to do without buyers. Shows and publications wouldn't exist other than as technical magazines and educational gatherings. So strictly from the point of view of the knife world as a commercial arena, there is no responsibility or obligation for the collector to do anything, even buy for that matter.

Another way to look at it is that custom the knife world is more than a commercial enterprise, it's a social community as STeven pointed out. If I want to be an active and respected member of that community, I need to participate and contribute more than simply buying knives to collect, use, sell, and trade. This is not really a responsibility or obligation but more a choice I make to be a part of the social group. As a part of that group the rules of civility require certain behaviors which could be considered responsibilities and obligations in a social context.

Finally, it can be seen from the perspective of the fine arts community. Certainly, the kind of knives we collect qualify for that desgnation. In the arts world there are a different set of rules or expectations which assign a burden of responsibility on the admirer and collector to help support the artist beyond simply buying the work. This is more about keeping the "art" alive and free from commercial pressures so that it can be as creative as possible.

I think the custom knife community is somewhat unique in that it incorporates all three of these aspects. Each of us needs to choose where we want to fall out - independent collector, member of community, or supporter of the art or any combination of the above. For me, it's really the choice of the individual - I don't expect anyone to play any role in particular. There certainly are advantages to us as individuals and the knife community in general to more participation and active involvement but I would draw the line at calling it a responsibility.
My comments are from the perspective of a collector. Makers and dealers probably have a very different perspective.

All good points, especially the last.

 

[Gollnick]

As an active member of the custom knife community do you see an advantage to or perhaps even feel a responsibility towards helping to sustain and progress it?

Yes.

Among other things, I sometimes buy a second-rate knife from an up-and-coming maker just to encourage them.

 

[RogerP]

I don't feel that it is a responsibility, or an obligation. I support the custom knife industry in any way that I feel makes sense to me, but I don't do it because I feel a sense of responsibility. I do it because I want to, and I enjoy it.

This goes for me, too.

If a magazine offers content that I enjoy reading, I buy it. If a forum offers lively discussion on topics that interest me, I participate. Knives are a hobby / passion for me - my involvement arises from my enjoyment of the people and the product, not out any feeling of obligation.

Roger

 

[Kevin Jones]

This goes for me, too.

If a magazine offers content that I enjoy reading, I buy it. If a forum offers lively discussion on topics that interest me, I participate. Knives are a hobby / passion for me - my involvement arises from my enjoyment of the people and the product, not out any feeling of obligation.

Roger

Fair enough, but when I enjoy or have a passion for something, I kind of feel an obligation to preserve and/or progress it rather than just enjoy it as long as it last or is of benefit to me.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Yes.

Among other things, I sometimes buy a second-rate knife from an up-and-coming maker just to encourage them.

That's a good example and admirable too.

 

[RogerP]

Fair enough, but when I enjoy or have a passion for something, I kind of feel an obligation to preserve and/or progress it rather than just enjoy it as long as it last or is of benefit to me.

I think we may have a different understanding of the term "obligation". When I have a passion for something I pursue it because I want to, not because I feel I have to.

I don't spend hard earned money and equally hard earned vacation time attending shows and hammer-ins because I feel a moral compulsion to do so.

I don't buy knives - direct orders from makers, show purchases, dealer purchases and felllow collector purchases out of a sense of duty.

I don't spend time researching and writing articles for magazines because I feel that I am required to do so.

I don't make thousands of posts over many years on an internet forum because I feel conscience-bound to do so.

I would say all these things do in fact contribute to the industry I enjoy. I would not describe my two decades plus of participation within the industry as simply "enjoying it as long as it lasts or is of benefit to me".

But moral / ethical compulsion, duty, requirement, conscience - all of which lie at the heart of "obligation" do not inform my motivation.

Roger

 

[RogerP]

That's a good example and admirable too.

Yes, it is admirable, but no, it is not an example of acting pursuant to "obligation". Indeed, what is admirable about such a purchase is the fact that it is done out of generosity and a desire to lend encouragement, in the absence of any obligation to do so.

Roger

 

[Lorien]

"In my opinion, the specific collectible in any collectible or art medium is only a part of what drives the overall to higher levels."
I think that you really summed it all up there, Kevin.

There is essence beyond material things, and I think that it's the most important aspect that material things seem to be able to bring out of people.
What the approach is, is up to the individual I suppose. For some, there may be a sense of obligation, for others- as Roger aptly pointed out- it may be something else. For sure, though, each individual will determine for themselves what there involvement entails. Hopefully, people get into this community because it's interesting and fun

I'll bet for those who create and disperse knives, there is much more obligation and responsibility involved, some of which they could probably do without on a given day, but that's where the livelihood aspect balances out the obligation aspect.

Harry, I really enjoyed reading your post. I read it a few times.

For me? Well, the limit of my involvement in this community is a couple of years checking out this website and reading many of the posts, buying a dozen or so magazines in order to get a little education, and interacting with, and buying from, a few knife makers whose work and attitude I admire.

I don't contribute much at all to the overall community, but I'm on a course that I think will lead me to becoming more involved in the fullness of time. As in my life generally, I have reason to believe that some of my involvement will be dictated by responsibilities to the community, but the important thing for me is WHY I'm here in the first place.

 

[Lorien]

I do feel a sense of responsibility towards the custom knife scene, now that I think about it, because on several occasions I've been on the receiving end of others' generosity. I feel obligated to 'pay it forward'.