Cutom heat treat vrs Factory?

[MEJ]

How do the custom knife makers heat treat stand against a factories?



P.s. - Im totally clueless... thx

 

[JayGoliath]

How do the custom knife makers heat treat stand against a factories?

They probably sent to the same HT location. Also it depends in the type of steel and application of it.
Brad Stallsmith from Peter's and Paul Farner from Paul Bos's are the two off my mind i can think of that takes care of the HT fro knife industry.
Factories wise i don't think we have the luxury to know, especially the one from Busse.

 

[sunshadow]

handmade knifemakers (Custom is a much misused word) have the luxury of being able to fine tune their heat treat for a specific client or application. Production knife companies have to go for a generic one-size-fits nobody balance that is easy to sharpen (read soft) hard to break (once again probably soft)
My personal philosophy is that I don't care how hard it is to sharpen one of my knives, they will get sharp and *stay* sharp. I tell my customers to use DMT diamond stones and have had no complaints. My CPM154 knives I send out to Paul Bos Heat treating and tell them I want an RC60, I don't have a rockwell tester so I can't tell you what the average RC on my carbon steel knives is at the moment, but they take a fair amount of abuse and keep cutting.
Of course every handmade knifemaker who does their own heat treat will be different, those who have good well researched appropriate and consistant technique will be substantially better than a factory knife, some guy who just heats to nonmagnetic in their barbeque and edge quenches in a dinosaur pee mix of canola, used motor oil, transmission fluid and lard is going to have a crap knife.

YMMV

-Page

 

[MEJ]

Then what is up with the hype about ESEE knives having a superior heat treat than other companies? If they all do it the same?

 

[Kentucky]

I cant comment on ESEE honestly...Lets say for instance a knifemaker has appropriate heat treating equipment for 1095..Temp controlled heat and a very fast oil like parks 50..Then the heat treat isnt going to get much better ..Cryo dosnt so anything for 1095 after a proper heat treat..Any retained aust' is gonna be converted during the tempering and cool down stages between tempering cycles..Though this kind of "one knife at a time" precision is hopefully part of what your hopefully paying for in a custom knife..

 

[foxx]

The ESEE knives used to be made by Ontario. There were issues with their HT, read, inconsistent. I have two Ontario's from the RD line, and they seem very soft to me. Yet, I have other Ontario knives that are good, and their machete's are exactly where they need to be.
Ontario makes many different knives, and on a large scale, so maybe they have more chance of making an error. I don't exactly know. But, ESEE went to Rowan and they have a better fit and finish, and a consistent and correct heat treat for their knives, at least according those that use them on BF.
I have some forged pieces, and a few hand made stock removal knives, all were heat treated by the maker. Like said, individual attention, geared towards the use of the blade can achieve the best HT for that blade.
Large companies can get it right, and often do. A knife maker can also have an off day, there are no guarantees. Hopefully a knife maker will have a tried and true method, or at least test the blade before it's finished.
My first handmade knife purchase happened to be the maker's first attempt at heat treating his own blade. I find it to be an excellent example of edge retention, and they guy just followed instructions for that steel, 1080.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Then what is up with the hype about ESEE knives having a superior heat treat than other companies? If they all do it the same?

They don't all do it the same. ESEE makes a good knife and needs to promote it. There aren't too many companies who will promote their heat treat as "just as good as everybody else". That's when it becomes an "Our's is the best!" debate. Is it hype? Maybe.... okay... mostly.

 

[jdm61]

ESEE claims a RC of 57-58. Not exactly a super secret, proprietary, end all, be all HT IMO. A lot of custom makers, myself included, will temper 10xx steels like 1084FG to 60 for "field" knives with no ill effect. I would think that you could leave 1095 that hard and still have a relatively tough, flexible blade because that steel is so shallow hardening, the core of the blade up by the spine and at the ricasso one some of heir larger knives is likely to be a bit softer than the edge. With certain steels, assuming the proper gear and techniques are utilized, the custom maker has the advantage being able to go off the reservation, so to speak and doing some specialized, but oft time complex and expensive heat treatments that probably would not make sense for most production knife companies or commercial heat treatment companies for that matter. I was talking to Kevin Cashen about a few steels like 52100, A2, etc. He said that with some, like 52100, you can play around with how much carbon you let go into solution in order to get a tougher or more abrasion resistant steel and also eliminate the potential for RA, whereas others like A2, you are kind of stuck the "natural" physical characteristics that the chemistry of the steel gives you to a large degree, like the inherent impact toughness of A2. Bob Doziers heat treatment of D2 is a good example of how the industry standard heat treatment recipe may not be ideal for knives because the steel was not really designed for that purpose. On the other hand, some steels, like O1 and W2, were designed more for cutting applications. If you want to see a crazy complicated HT for high alloy steels, check out what Roman Landes came up while doing research for his dissertation.