Cutting tests w/4 knife steels

Thanks Larrin. I know what it is, it will be like Christmas in September. To answer Cliffs question on cost----. Cost to me is really not a factor. It doesn't matter if the stock for a custom knife costs $1 or $15 when the price of a knife is $300 to $400. What is important is performance, ease of heat treat and time involved. I like to experiment with different steels though and that is why I am interested in 12C27 and AEBL. I also think the toughness is a factor for applications like kitchen knives. If CPM 154 turns out to have adequate impact toughness and bending strength then again this would be the steel of choice for that application. Time will tell on that factor but based on a couple of fillet knives at high hardness it seems to be great so far. Yes tech support is also a large factor. If guys like Ed Severson, Dick Barber, Scott Devana, and Ed Tarney will talk to us knife makers and educate us then that is something that is hard to put a value on. I do want to do some more writing for the magazines and now have a good digital camera so I will write up some stuff technical and see who might be interested. PHIL
 
Thank you, Is that Euros or Kronasf? Can you be a little more specific and convert to dollars for us. Phil
 
M Wadel, A used and re-conditioned Wilson Rockwell tester will be in the two to three thousand range if you can find one. I have a source and can do some checking if you want. You can also get a knockoff made in India or China for the one thousand range. These work ok but you do need a certified test block to go with it. A brand new Wilson Rockwell/Instron starts at about five thousand I think and goes up to fifteen thousand for one with a nice digital read out .. PHIL
 
thats quite some dough.. 5 grand.. hehe but its probably worth it when youre getting serious. right now in trying to figure out how to make a cheap but high performance oven. hardness tester will be far in the future for me, atleast the way things look right now

the prices are in skr. 100skr is around 13.55us$. you get around 7.30skr for 1 us$ if im not mistaking. how are the RWL34 prices compared to CPM154?
 
if my math is correct the price per kg for RWL is around 50$ and AEB-L is around 13$/kg
 
Phil Wilson said:
Cost to me is really not a factor. It doesn't matter if the stock for a custom knife costs $1 or $15 when the price of a knife is $300 to $400. What is important is performance, ease of heat treat and time involved.
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Yes, as a high end custom maker the price of your time is usually far more than the steel, unless you move towards the exotic damascus or similar. However if you publish in Blade or similar it would be very valuable for makers who are starting out and especially for the production market.

-Cliff
 
hardheart said:
aren't there files that can be used for checking hardness?
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Yes but they could never be as accurate as a Rockwell tester. I think that Wayne Goddard says in his books that he could get as close as within 1-2 Rc.
 
I just spoke to Tony at Uddeholm and he said that AEB-L can be purchased in as small a quantities as 15-20 lbs. Pretty reasonable really. Judging by the fact that 13C26 isn't even typically made in knife thicknesses, Uddeholm is probably easiest.

Edit: My dad says Tony may only be referring to the very thin material.
 
Cliff, I guess I should qualify my statement a bit. the cost for a pc of ZDP 189 aprox, .125x 1.25 x 12 is going to be about $50 by the time it is shipped to my door. That is too much for me. In addition if I have to buy 500 lbs of something that that hurts also. It is very convienient to by smaller quanities of steel even if the price per pound is a little higher. $15 or so for a pc of steel for a knive blade is still a pretty good deal considering that a block of nice Ironwood is $40 and good Stag is now $40 to $44 for one pc. Quality abrasive belts are now around $6. Just wanted tp put it all in perspective. Phil
 
Hard heart, Yes files do work and someone pretty skilled like Wayne Goddard can go ok with them. Files are 63 RC or so and will skate on steel any harder than about 58. Given that a file test would not do much good on steels in the 59 to 64 RC range. I paid $2000 for my hardness tester. It was built in 1945 but was re-conditioned and is a great tool. Most usefull piece of equipment in my shop. About the same price as a good belt grinder. IMHO if you are doing your own heat treating you are driving in the dark without a Rockwell tester. PHIL
 
Larrin, On blades with thin edges the sharpening takes very little effort. Especially with silicon carbide stones . These stones cut clean and fast. I don't think there is much difference but will pay more attention next time and see if I can tell. PHIL
 
In regards to hardness testing with files-
I took him to mean something different. At one time a knifemaker (Can't remember who) used to make small slips of steel of varying hardnesses, that could be used to determine a ballpark figure. The idea was to do a scratch test with one, and see if it scratched or indented the blade or whatever. You could then try a harder or softer one to see the results of that one, and thus narrow down the hardness to about +/- 2 Rc.

I vaguely recall someone also making sets of files of different hardnesses for the same purpose, but I could be mistaken.
 
Phil, have you worked anymore with 12C27 yet. I would be interested specifically in a lower temperature soak as well as a shorter one. I would expect it to significantly increase the performance.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, Not yet, I don't have any 12C27 on hand, only some AEB-L. I can try Romans reccommendations on that soon as I get caught up on the custom work. PHIL
 
Nice to see you are busy Phil, will be interesting to see the AEBL with minimal retained austenite with the hardness pushing past 60 HRC.

-Cliff
 
This is all very well and good, but where
does my Gerber 420J2 blade come into the mix?
I expect after about 210 cuts, it would need a
few quick swipes on my Sharpmaker. Let's see:

+ 420
- 154
---------
= 366
- 154
---------
= 212
- 154
---------
= 58

Yep, the way I calculate it, my 420 should
be a little more than three times better at
keeping its edge, right?

Yes, sir, you can't go wrong with Gerber.
You'll never see them using that 154CM or CPM154
garbage! When you've been making knives as long
as Gerber, maintaining your good name is vital!

tongue_in_cheek.jpg
 
Confederate-
Is that picture of you? Would be nice to put a face to the name. Been over to Shootersville lately?
 
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