D2 project

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Feb 17, 2007
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I got my hands on some D2 and sent a 12.5" x 39.5" piece off to Dave at Great Lakes Waterjet along with a template I had made 3 prototype blades of. He did me a great job and here are the 36 blanks. The stock is a bit over 3/16 thick, almost .20. I beveled and ground 10 of them to 120 grit today after all the honey dos and a couple of my own projects. I do have a question. This stuff has a layer of mill scale and it is hard. The bevels weren't to bad but the flats sucked to clean off. Even with a 36 grit belt. It was my last 36 and a bit worn from the beveling. Tried some ferric chloride for about 1/2 hr and that didn't seem to help. Vinegar over night help? I guess I could haul them to work and blast em with glass beads. Do you think if I used steel shot to blast them might contaminate the blanks and cause them to rust way faster or would it be ground away with the finer grits.
 

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I've never been able to soak off that mill scale. I've always had to grind it off. I hate it. I have all the steel I order surface ground now so I don't have to deal with it.
 
You could probably do it with a strong hydrochloric acid bath but handling that stuff is best avoided . Stick to abrasives.
 
I will order some more 36 grit belts. I am going to get me a small blast booth soon. Next weekend is Grizzly's local dent and scratch sale. Hope they have a couple there. I have 3 12"x39" pieces of this steel left besides what was cut into these blanks. The deal was way to good to pass up on. I will be making lots of D2 knives and descaling a lot.
 
I have a surface grinder. I'd still use acid.

I'm pretty sure that industrially, mill scale is removed on Hot Rolled Pickled and Oiled steel with hydrochloric acid. I know it seems like everything about D2 is more difficult, but I would think that the scale would still respond to this. But like mete said, strong acid is dangerous.

I would at least try soaking in vinegar overnight. And possibly go to the hardware store and look under the concrete cleaner or solvent section for "muriatic acid", which is just hydrochloric acid, not at full strength. It isn't expensive, if you're careful it isn't dangerous, and I'd be amazed if it didn't work.
 
If you use Muriatic acid - do it outside !! Otherwise you'll find everything in your shop has a coating of rust !! Inhaling fumes is not a good idea either.
 
Oh yeah, like mete said. Outside. I should have mentioned that.

I had a similar rust surprise with an early REN type of material I was machining on about 10-15 years ago. The dust rusted everything. Sickening.
 
concrete cleaner or solvent section

yep hydrochloric acid = "muriatic acid"
It's old Nomenclature, strength is not a factor.

also as:

Toilet bowl cleaner
swimming pool additive (really strong stuff)

(If diluting - use face guards AND goggles...always add the acid to the water - it gets warm.)

Wear your respirator with charcoal filters - acid fumes set off my asthma every time
 
Thanks for the warnings and suggestions. I am around strong chemicals everyday. 99% sulfuric acid etc. I spend a few hours a week in a plastic suit breathing thru a hose and regulator. Atmospheric scuba diving lol. Understand the MSDS system. I wonder about diluted sulfuric. Interestingly in it near pure form it doesn't do much to carbon steel, but, it smokes hose out the piping with water. LOL. I have a some respirators and couple boxes of various respirator filters at the house and I will get some of the muratic acid and give it a shot. .

I have the first 10 beveled and some are ground to 400 grit. Which brings me to another point on this project. My grinding has got way better in the last couple years and my disk grinder really helps. I can do my basic forge work. I was thinking today I should get a few masters and journey men lined up and when I finish some of these sent one on a journey. I would sent it with postage and have each craftsman check it out and then forward it to the next. I would like opinions and ideas. I can take my JS performance test soon and I need to get some valid opinions as to my fit and finish work. I know these are not forged, but, a forged blade has still has to have quality finish work to get your stamp. I did get the one of the prototypes viewed by a mastersmith locally and he found little wrong. Anyone interested in being a judge for me.
 
Well, I haven't got around to getting any acid. But I did HT the 10 I have ground. I soaked them for over 30 min at 1850 in my oven then plate quenched. Then into a bucket full of Acetone and dry ice for 3 hours (had to wait on wife cooking rhubarb pie for an extra hour). Then, 2 2hour cycles at 450. I was doing higher grit sanding and touch up on them, but, I couldn't stand it so I put a hair shaving edge on one, then chopped thru a couple 16 penny nails and it still shaved although with my lope I could see a tiny bit of the very edge had chipped. I love this stuff.
 
I ordered a couple hundred dollars of 1080 and it had the mill scale on it. After about two blanks...I sold all of it. I will never buy steel again unless it is surface ground. What a pain in the ***!
 
Remember that 'precision ground' is something you don't need an don't need the high cost ! Look for scale free or decarb free .
 
When I get 4 pieces of 3/16+" D2 that are 12 1/2" x 39 1/2" for $400 I take em with the mill scale. I am sure I can get rid of the scale one way or the other. I have no doubts that some kind of acid will take care of the scale.
 
Yeah, me to.

When done right, D2 has an unusual combination of high hardness, good corrosion resistance, relatively good toughness, good abrasion resistance and it cuts well due to the micro serration effect of the carbides. There are other steels that do some of these things better, but I've found none that do all of them like D2.

I find it holds up to my uses better than anything. Yesterday I was cutting drywall and fiberglass tape with it. I use it in the shop to deburr parts. I use it to skin deer. I use it in my steak knife (I think those large carbides and high hardness help with edge blunting on the porcelain) For the somewhat abusive things I subject blades to, D2 has got to be the best all around steel for me. In side by side comparisons with S30V and VG10, the D2 comes out on top in real world usage, for me.

A lot of people's problem with D2 is the large primary carbides, which can be up to 50 microns. And for people who don't really use their knives for much, and are mostly concerned with sharpenability, rust resistance and the ability to get very sharp, lower carbon stainless is better. But if you like your edge relatively hard and thin and plan to really work the heck out of it, there is none better than D2 and I think those large carbides are contributing to the cutting ability beyond what finer carbides would. When you look at images of knife edges taken under electron microscopes and see these big nasty carbides sticking out of the edge it makes you think, yuck, that ain't good. But you ever look at your own cuticle under high magnification? You'll say yuck, that ain't good, too. But the reality is, it is fine (well mine is, I can't speak for yours). I believe real world usage benefits from those large carbides. No knife will stay extremely sharp after much abusive use (cutting nails for example, there is going to be some dulling of the edge in any knife) but those fat carbides help the edge cut as if it were sharper than it really is, due to the sawing effect.

And when people find it hard to sharpen or that it takes a bad edge, somebody didn't do something right. There is nothing worse than thick, softly tempered D2. And nothing better than thin, hard D2.

Man, I'm running on aren't I... This was a thread about scale... It is Sunday morning, can this count as my religious experience for the day?

I'll part with this fun pict...

D2_cutting.jpg
 
Man, I'm running on aren't I...
Not really ;) You always have interesting, constructive points backed up with fact

It is Sunday morning, can this count as my religious experience for the day?

Works for me :thumbup: I'll be out in the shop listening to my KMG quote scripture in just a few minutes :D


I'll part with this fun pict...

D2_cutting.jpg

Excellent pic :thumbup: :thumbup: I've heard good things about Carothers knives ;)




:cool:
 
If you don't like those big ugly carbides you can get smaller ones with CPM D2.
 
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