D2 Vs. High Carbon

garytelecastor said:
I plan on using it for camping, and a hunting trip I am taking.
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Few knives for hunting have been more highly regarded than those designed and made by Bob Dozier. Dozier made a name for himself by using D2 steel almost exclusively.

D2 is good stuff...but I'll bet if you handed most folks two unmarked knives and asked them to figure out which is 1095 and which is D2 just by using them most of us couldn't tell them apart.
 
Alot of guys like D2....I don;t, generally speaking. It's very difficult for me to get sharp and I can never get that fine, sweet, crisp edge like I can on other steels. I consider myself an average to slightly above-average sharpener, to give you an idea of what you might face when sharpening D2. S30V is another tough one to sharpen, but I do like that steel....mostly. D2 is for those that like it, in my book. It's not for me (or anyone lacking in sharpening skils and proper tools).

1095, A2, O1, 154CM (!!!), the Sandvik stainless steels, 440c, are all very good steels in my opinion. As others said, 1095 sharpens up nicely and will scare you when sharpened correctly. It's tough too, and will NOT chip, though it can roll. I never had D2 chip on me, but then my number of D2 blades (3 maybe 4) don;t see alot of use either.

My vote, for what it's worth, goes to 1095. Easy.
 
Both are excellent blade steel in their own right but regarding a fixed blade for outdoor activities its pretty hard to top 1095.
 
elkins45 said:
Few knives for hunting have been more highly regarded than those designed and made by Bob Dozier. Dozier made a name for himself by using D2 steel almost exclusively.

D2 is good stuff...but I'll bet if you handed most folks two unmarked knives and asked them to figure out which is 1095 and which is D2 just by using them most of us couldn't tell them apart.
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Aside from which one stains faster, which one sharpens easier, and which one has more wear resistance:rolleyes:.

D2 steel is old stuff, but all the datasheets I read still says it has "very high wear resistance" so I would like to think that even if it doesn't quite compare to modern steels like Elmax and M390, it's still a hell of a lot more wear resistant than 1095.

Still, for some reason I get curious about whether or not a powdered version of 1095 would be good stuff. I guess it's because people praise CPM-D2 above the usual D2. Kinda makes me wonder what Bob Dozier could do with a third generation PM steel.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Aside from which one stains faster, which one sharpens easier, and which one has more wear resistance:rolleyes:.

D2 steel is old stuff, but all the datasheets I read still says it has "very high wear resistance" so I would like to think that even if it doesn't quite compare to modern steels like Elmax and M390, it's still a hell of a lot more wear resistant than 1095.

Still, for some reason I get curious about whether or not a powdered version of 1095 would be good stuff. I guess it's because people praise CPM-D2 above the usual D2. Kinda makes me wonder what Bob Dozier could do with a third generation PM steel.
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Maybe I should have said "I couldn't tell the difference." :)

I don't really see how doing a powder version of 1095 would help it any. The reason for powder metallurgy is to combine elements that would otherwise segregate out during the cooling process of a liquid melt. 1095, while a hyper-eutetoid, has no exotic ingredients (nor too much carbon) that need such treatment.
 
mete said:
Contrary to it's popularity D2 does not make the best choice.
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Hmmmm. I wonder if Bob Dozier knows that? :confused:

PS: Never mind. elkins45 beat me to it. ;) On the other hand, and in all fairness, I should mention that Mike Stewart won't make knives constructed of D2. So there seems to be quite a bit of polarity among knifemakers regarding D2's efficacy as a cutlery steel. Getting the most out of D2 may be best left to those who specialize in working with it.

.
 
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bld522 said:
On the other hand, and in all fairness, I should mention that Mike Stewart won't make knives constructed of D2. So there seems to be quite a bit of polarity among knifemakers regarding D2's efficacy as a cutlery steel. Getting the most out of D2 may be best left to those who specialize in working with it.
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Wasn't his Ek Commando made of D2?
 
I'm not sure about that. All I know is that Mike has publicly stated that he's unwilling to use D2 to construct Bark River Knives. And I'm unaware of any USA-made Blackjack knives that were ever constructed of D2 either. So if Mike made Ek Commandos out of D2, perhaps that experience is what soured him on ever using it again.

.
 
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Don't worry about getting the terminology right. High carbon steel has more than 0.5% carbon. Carbon steel is also a very narrow classification, it is not just 'anything that isn't stainless.' If it alloyed to contain more than iron, carbon, or manganese (1.65 max), silicon (0.6 max), copper (0.6 max) it is not a carbon steel. D2 is a high carbon tool steel.
 
bld522 said:
I'm not sure about that. All I know is that Mike has publicly stated that he's unwilling to use D2 to construct Bark River Knives. And I'm unaware of any USA-made Blackjack knives that were ever constructed of D2 either. So if Mike made Ek Commandos out of D2, perhaps that experience is what soured him on ever using it again.

.
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With some of the info people are putting out regarding Bark River and edge issues, he is going to single handedly give A2 a bad rep to those that aren't already familiar with the steel. It's a very fine steel in its own right.
 
Both are really great steels IMO for any user knife. My Izula does stain fast, not that I care and my Benchmade D2 Bone Collector can take a shaving sharp edge with no issues.

IF staining is an issue, dont go with 1095. But D2 and 1095 can take a shaving sharp edge and be mirror polished.

Here is my D2.

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Here you can see the edge a bit better though it is dirty. I only stropped the D2, the other blade is 154CM

Stropped

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Normal edge sharpened on Lansky and Turn Box kit (Crock Sticks)
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Well, one thing about D2: It's "cool" to own D2. I think Mete had it about right, though his post was so short he didn;t clarify and left it open for too much arguement. D2 is NOT always the best choice or, better put, it rarely is. With so many cool low-rider steels out there now, D2 lost some love, but it's still much "cooler" than 1095.

If you get the knife you want in D2, work on it. Eventually you'll get one in 1095. Then you'll say "What was I thinking when I got this one in D2? It's as dull as a sapling and I can;t get the edge I want on it."

Then, as time goes by, you'll get others in other steels. Your sharpening skills will slowly improve. Eventually, you'll pull the dusty D2 blade out again and manage to get a fairly nice edge on it. You won;t get it "hair popping" sharp, or even "scary sharp", though many will try to convince you you can. It'll get sharp enough to where you'll want to use the knife on some stuff, and maybe start carrying it. But.......you won;t be "popping" hairs off your forearm. Shaving hairs? Oh sure. Easy. But not "popping" them 1/8" from the skin. Nope. Not for a long, lengthy pause in Earth-time. Eventually. Someday. Maybe. Maybe you'll mail it to Tom Krein or Bob Dozier. They'll make it shine. Eventually, it'll get dull again. But! You'll be cool because you got some D2. ((:D))
 
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StretchNM said:
Well, one thing about D2: It's "cool" to own D2. I think Mete had it about right, though his post was so short he didn;t clarify and left it open for too much arguement. D2 is NOT always the best choice or, better put, it rarely is. With so many cool low-rider steels out there now, D2 lost some love, but it's still much "cooler" than 1095.

If you get the knife you want in D2, work on it. Eventually you'll get one in 1095. Then you'll say "What was I thinking when I got this one in D2? It's as dull as a sapling and I can;t get the edge I want on it."

Then, as time goes by, you'll get others in other steels. Your sharpening skills will slowly improve. Eventually, you'll pull the dusty D2 blade out again and manage to get a fairly nice edge on it. You won;t get it "hair popping" sharp, or even "scary sharp", though many will try to convince you you can. It'll get sharp enough to where you'll want to use the knife on some stuff, and maybe start carrying it. But.......you won;t be "popping" hairs off your forearm. Shaving hairs? Oh sure. Easy. But not "popping" them 1/8" from the skin. Nope. Not for a long, lengthy pause in Earth-time. Eventually. Someday. Maybe. Maybe you'll mail it to Tom Krein or Bob Dozier. They'll make it shine. Eventually, it'll get dull again. But! You'll be cool because you got some D2. ((:D))
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I dont think anyone who uses knives in the field gives a shit whether a steel is "cool" or not I certainly dont and my fellow soldiers and outdoorsman dont. If you cant get a d2 blade sharp you must have the sharpening skills of a monkey or the wrong sharpening gear. I have various knives in both steels and when they are both sharpened properly theres no noticable difference. I use a diamond hone on my d2 blades and they get bloody sharp, I dont know what scary sharp is but they get sharp enough to skin sheep with ease what more do you need. I favour D2 on exercises as over three weeks in the bush it wont need sharpening where 1095 needs to be touched up after hard work.

At the end of the day the choice is yours if you cant decide save and get both
 
really i believe that the use factor is most important in choosing the alloy. a man working in a lumber yard or a high volume cutting operation needing lots of small knife activity that has little time to touch up an edge during the work day probably would be happier with d2. the outdoorsman & more casual user may prefer the lazer sharp --easy touch up of 1095 or 01. my queens get real sharp but lose the finer bevel fairly fast, the very sharp 1095 gec holds on to that razor edge a little longer. b.m. 710 seems to be somewhat a better cutter than queen but both queen & b.m. d2 will only get so dull & then seem to cut forever. 1095 keeps gradually wearing down to full dullness. for individuals not crazy about a full time razor edge d2 is the better choice. i like 1095 since i can do daily touchups & love the carbon patina. but if i had to hit the bricks w/o the ability to do frequent touchups i would go with d2. combat knives in d2 with a good heattreat would probably serve the field soldier better.
dennis
 
Lot to be said for 52100 with a good heat treat in that price range. ;)
 
StretchNM said:
Well, one thing about D2: It's "cool" to own D2. I think Mete had it about right, though his post was so short he didn;t clarify and left it open for too much arguement. D2 is NOT always the best choice or, better put, it rarely is. With so many cool low-rider steels out there now, D2 lost some love, but it's still much "cooler" than 1095.
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Who buys knives with "cool" steel? You? From your tone of posting that may be important to you, but never was, has been, or will be for me. I don't know that D2 is always the best choice, but you are dead wrong to think it "rarely" is. I don't know what a "low rider steel" is so I can't really speak to those steels.

StretchNM said:
If you get the knife you want in D2, work on it. Eventually you'll get one in 1095. Then you'll say "What was I thinking when I got this one in D2? It's as dull as a sapling and I can;t get the edge I want on it."
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I would be thinking, "Gee.... this D2 is great. With the sharpening skills of a small child I can put a helluva an edge on it and it seems to stay sharp for a really long time! This is great stuff!"


StretchNM said:
Then, as time goes by, you'll get others in other steels. Your sharpening skills will slowly improve. Eventually, you'll pull the dusty D2 blade out again and manage to get a fairly nice edge on it. You won;t get it "hair popping" sharp, or even "scary sharp", though many will try to convince you you can. It'll get sharp enough to where you'll want to use the knife on some stuff, and maybe start carrying it. But.......you won;t be "popping" hairs off your forearm. Shaving hairs? Oh sure. Easy. But not "popping" them 1/8" from the skin. Nope. Not for a long, lengthy pause in Earth-time. Eventually. Someday. Maybe. Maybe you'll mail it to Tom Krein or Bob Dozier. They'll make it shine. Eventually, it'll get dull again.
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D2 is easy to sharpen. Period. I have used both Alox stones and free hand with diamond rods. These easily sharpen D2. Since I am a blue collar guy and use my knives for harder work, I don't put hair popping, or photon splitting edges on my knives. No one I know that uses knives for construction work (leave out the office guy that opens the mail with his pocket knife... that rascal!) actually does that as the edges are too fragile for everyday use. Don't believe me? Cut loose several fiberglass boom straps used to secure materials on a 52' float trailer and report back about popping a hair with 1095. Your hair may pop out of your head from the damage to your knife, but that would be all the popping you would have. Been there, done that. Hair shaving is perfect.

Concerning "hair popping" on a work knife (remember, for some of us, knives are actually usable tools!), tried it. For me, it was a total waste of time. Cutting away the cardboard and cutting the fiberglass straps from one small set of kitchen cabinets wrecks the edge. However, a great "work" edge on both 1095 or D2 gives me great service and eats stuff like that up all day.

StretchNM said:
But! You'll be cool because you got some D2. ((:D))
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I didn't even know there was a fan club. I didn't know it was cool, and no one told me!

I have a RAT 7 in D2 which I earlier chopped an oak 2X4 in half with to make sure there would be no chipping. I was intrigued by difference of opinion here since so many were adamant about their thoughts, then realized that many here had no actual personal experience with the steel. I had to know for myself, no rumor/smut/hearsay would do. My results of my simple tests are around here somewhere, as well as a youtube video of another doing the same thing.

Couldn't find mine, but found his video of chopping through a hard yellow pine 2X4:

http://www.youtube.com/user/BLUNTRUTH4U#p/u/71/jvEkdJJ9wuk

I also have a RAT 5 that is just about as good a camp knife as you can get.

I have two Kershaws with D2 edges. The JYDII comp blade is one of the meanest slicers I own. Even I was surprised. I was surprised at how easy it is to sharpen, and how long the Kershaw holds an edge at it's job site duties. Truthfully, my Tyrade hasn't seen any field duty because I paid too much for it.

I also have a Queen Dan Burke Barlow, a Queen Classic Gunstock, and a couple of others that go to work. I am thinking that the D2 in my Kershaw is actually a bit better than the D2 in my Queens. I don't know if it is the edge geometry or heat treat, but the Kershaw seems to cut cleaner, longer. But the Queen steel is more than satisfactory for me.

D2 holds and edge very well, is affordable, and doesn't rust up. I have too many of my pocket knives that span my 40+ years of knife buying that were 10XX knives that constantly rusted in my sweaty pockets during work. They were also prone to excess corrosion after opening cleaning solvents, bags of cement, and all manner of chemicals and adhesives, which a contractor does frequently.

No such problems with D2. It doesn't seem to take a super keen edge as well as a thin piece of 1095. But then, I shave with my razors, not with my knives. I need a knife that will hold a working edge for a few days without fussing with it. I need a knife that when it rusts it only amounts to a few flecks of discoloration.

Personally, I like to carry both D2 and 1095, and like them both. I carry my D2 knives religiously in the summer as they don't corrode much at all in my sweaty pockets. (I soak through my pants in the South Texas heat by mid morning). I carry my carbon steels in the winter when there isn't much chance of sweat saturation.

Does this mean I am not "cool" in the winter? That sounds backwards to me....

D2 has its place for the workingman, and many others that use it to hunt (Bob Dozier has made legendary blades of it for a decade or so), fish, etc. It is prized by many of us for its utility value. I don't know anyone that thinks using D2 makes them cool. That includes me.

Perhaps that is just your perception?

Robert
 
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